... most of what you listed can be sent with a minimal email containing a link to the mailing list... problem solved. And as for what needs to be sent: I guess use your own judgement for what's important... taking your Jira example: I don't think that every bug needs to be discussed in the community (aka mailing list), security related issues being the exception here (there's a separate private list for that)... but in general I would assume that most of the Jira tickets had some previous discussions on the mailing list or the more instantaneous channels like Slack (in that case just send a quick reminder with a link to the Slack discussion to the mailing list). In person conversations can be written down (if they happen on Zoom and similar then you have all those note taking assistants now...) and sent to the mailing list (again, if they are important enough)...
So... overall... I see not too much of a problem here. Cheers, Aleks On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 2:34 AM Avik Ganguly <a...@fynarfin.io> wrote: > Hi folks, James, > > it is important for those conducting such off list discussions to bring >> them back to on list > > I have seen the same thing mentioned in The Apache Way > <https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/> but that's more in line with > preventing private discussions rather than public discussions in non-email > based communication platforms. Can you point me to an Apache > discussion/documentation which explores why it's important or why the > on-list definition cannot be expanded? > > There are also these line in *The Apache Way* > >> There is no "one way" to The Apache Way. The ASF is not dictatorial and >> will never compel a rigid path to implement our process, as we believe >> flexibility is integral to The Apache Way to Sustainable Open Source >> Success. > > The Apache Way is a living, breathing interpretation of one’s experience >> with our community-led development process. > > > A lot of people I know see email as an inappropriate channel for short > form communication / content. In Open Source, the time it would take to > change behaviour of new members is very long especially if there is no > agreement. If that discussion is done on the JIRA ticket instead of Slack, > do you consider the problem as solved or unresolved? Is the issue with open > source friendliness of Slack? Is Confluence off-list as well? > > Would you like to share some thoughts on the kind of issues you have > observed where discussions have moved off list (and off JIRA, Confluence & > Github)? I have noticed design documents as one category where the drafts > and review comments are done in Google Docs or Notion or OneNote and later > moved to Confluence (which also prevents more formalization of design > review guidelines). Another problem could be that Confluence or Gitbook or > other tools might have free licenses for NGOs but not for commercial open > source orgs and members from orgs participating in open source might wish > to align only on those tools which are internally consistent. Ex:- > Confluence is a full fledged team workspace cum knowledge base whereas any > free note taking app is often sufficient for designing. > > Increasing the surface area for moderation is a challenge though. Ex:- If > we are considering JIRA as on-list, is off topic discussion, misinformation > or hateful speech moderated at most Apache JIRAs? Is this more of a > scheduling/moderation assignee problem rather than a principle problem > (with respect to what is a fair method of collaboration)? > > I am sure folks would have many other thoughts in an anonymous survey. > Ex:- What about verbal conversations that happen in online conferencing > tools with consent for the meeting notes being shared publicly? What if the > summary of that discussion is in a publicly shared Google Doc and linked to > a generic meeting ticket in JIRA? What about the lack of emoji support in > free email clients? Are emojis considered unprofessional in this community > 🤐? > > Off topic for this thread and mailing list but I noticed the Mojaloop > community moving away from JIRA. Does anyone have any open source concerns > with using JIRA? > > With best regards, > Avik Ganguly >
