Members present: benoitc, wendall911, ryan_ramage, chewbranca, dch ---------------- Meeting summary: ----------------
1. Preface 2. meeting frequency a. benoitc to send a proposal to the mailing list to have a once a month obligatory meeting (ryan_ramage, 2) 3. 1.3.0 release congrats a. thanks for all the hard work to everyone for getting 1.3.0 out the door (ryan_ramage, 3) 4. javascript test update. View engine update/replacement. Removal of _restart a. couch 2.0 query server proposal https://plus.google.com/u/0/113807980501912604291/posts/EWgzb8dJeve (ryan_ramage, 4) b. wendall911 to start discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal (ryan_ramage, 4) 5. erlang r13b04 a. dch to update COUCHDB-1696 and prod the list on it (dch, 5) 6. fauxton 7. GsoC a. everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise -> dch to send email (ryan_ramage, 7) b. dch to mail dev@ and user@ (dch, 7) c. ryan_ramage to check fauxton builds/deploys (ryan_ramage, 7) d. offers to mentor are available for GSoC (ryan_ramage, 7) 8. open discussion -------- Actions: -------- - benoitc to send a proposal to the mailing list to have a once a month obligatory meeting (ryan_ramage, 19:17:28) - wendall911 to start discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal (ryan_ramage, 19:25:35) - dch to update COUCHDB-1696 and prod the list on it (dch, 19:38:28) - everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise -> dch to send email (ryan_ramage, 19:55:58) - dch to mail dev@ and user@ (dch, 19:56:00) - ryan_ramage to check fauxton builds/deploys (ryan_ramage, 19:57:37) IRC log follows: # 1. Preface # 19:01:20 [ryan_ramage]: sweet 19:01:58 [ryan_ramage]: hey all, dch can't stick around so has put me in charge of this loose group of awesome 19:02:13 [ryan_ramage]: so send me your topics and we will start in 5 min 19:03:58 [ryan_ramage]: poke chewbranca, davisp garren JasonSmith kocolosk nslater rnewson alice|wl bartender benoitc bigbluehat dpk drsm79 19:04:30 [ryan_ramage]: poke Humbedooh jan____ jeffmjack jeffmjack Kxepal mikewallace sbisbee sbp svnlto vmx Yakulu 19:05:20 [benoitc]: i'bve no other topic except that we should relax the weekly meeting to one/month 19:06:15 [benoitc]: which is a topic. 19:06:58 [ryan_ramage]: ok. will add meeting frequency as a topic 19:07:43 [ryan_ramage]: wow, this is quiet. 19:08:16 [wendall911]: who is MC today? 19:08:35 [wendall911]: who's running this show! 19:08:35 [ryan_ramage]: ok one more minute. I'll add a topic for the 1.3 release post congrats 19:08:35 [wendall911]: :) 19:08:36 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: I am 19:08:50 [ryan_ramage]: got any topics, send 'em my way 19:08:50 [wendall911]: cool, I'd like to add a topic 19:09:28 [wendall911]: Discuss javascript test update. View engine update/replacement. Removal of _restart 19:09:36 [ryan_ramage]: ok cool. noted. 19:09:38 [wendall911]: they are all related for my current issues 19:09:58 [ryan_ramage]: ok, lets start # 2. meeting frequency # 19:10:07 [dch]: topic um r13b04, has anybody tested it lately (another topic) 19:10:35 [ryan_ramage]: benoitc: you would like to suggest from once a week to once a month? 19:10:43 [benoitc]: yes 19:10:58 [ryan_ramage]: ok, sway the crowd.... 19:11:20 [benoitc]: cause i personnaly find that there is less interrest tduring these last 3 meetings 19:11:37 [benoitc]: all can bet more energizing with real content 19:11:50 [benoitc]: s/bet/be 19:12:13 [wendall911]: I think this would be fine. I'd like to have the ability to plan special meetings. Where we can discuss specific issues on the side that are outside of what the entire group may want to contribute to. 19:12:35 [benoitc]: i have even heitate to be be online for this one if it was to hear the same thing as l;ast week whoich was the same from last last week 19:13:06 [ryan_ramage]: yes, its usually like many orbs, people are busy and updates start to sound the same 19:13:20 [ryan_ramage]: s/orbs/orgs 19:13:28 [benoitc]: yes 19:13:35 [wendall911]: benoitc: I only showed up today because I wanted some thoughts on where to get started on view engine. List is probably the proper place though. 19:13:50 [wendall911]: Essentially, not necessarily something to meet about. 19:13:58 [dch]: I'm easy but I like the momentum -- it keeps me moving. 19:14:20 [benoitc]: wendall911: and that's perfectly fine. i think my idea would be havin aone "obligatory" meeting /month 19:14:20 [dch]: and there's definite value in being in the same place/time occasionally, but it doesn't have to be weekly. We just started with that. 19:14:29 [ryan_ramage]: maybe the format and frequency are related. How topics are kept, tracked and followed up. 19:14:38 [benoitc]: and meeting orginezed by informal group or when we need an instant discussion 19:15:13 [wendall911]: +1 on benoitc's suggestion 19:15:50 [wendall911]: benoitc: It might be nice for these side discussions to be announced on the list. It would give anyone a chance to attend if they wanted. 19:15:58 [benoitc]: since it need aa concensus ,i propose to propose that on the ml 19:16:23 [benoitc]: wendall911: yes I keep saying that since awhile, also then the discussion can start off 19:16:43 [ryan_ramage]: yes so benoitc can you send a ml the proposal. 19:16:43 [benoitc]: and other things related (like thinking on what we can add to a topic) 19:16:45 [ryan_ramage]: I would back it 19:16:50 [benoitc]: ryan_ramage: yes 19:17:15 [benoitc]: will do tomorrow 19:17:21 [benoitc]: put it as an action 19:17:28 [ryan_ramage]: #action benoitc to send a proposal to the mailing list to have a once a month obligatory meeting 19:17:52 [ryan_ramage]: ok, shall we move on? 19:18:05 [benoitc]: i'm done myself # 3. 1.3.0 release congrats # 19:18:35 [ryan_ramage]: awesome work everyone 19:18:50 [ryan_ramage]: a very big release, to be proud of 19:19:43 [ryan_ramage]: #info thanks for all the hard work to everyone for getting 1.3.0 out the door 19:20:13 [ryan_ramage]: ok, prolly nothing actionible hereâ¦. # 4. javascript test update. View engine update/replacement. Removal of _restart # 19:20:51 [ryan_ramage]: go ahead wendall911 19:20:59 [wendall911]: I think I should move this to the list and propose a side meeting 19:21:30 [wendall911]: It's a little complicated, and I've been combing the lists and gathering specific comments about each issue. 19:21:59 [wendall911]: There are several ideas floating around right now, but what I want to do is arrive at some kind of a consensus so I can start coding on this 19:22:20 [benoitc]: wendall911: just to add some food fot thoughts , there ois someone that posted a proposal on g+ 19:22:28 [benoitc]: for the view engine protocol 19:22:35 [wendall911]: benoitc: ok, didn't see that 19:22:45 [wendall911]: benoitc: that's the exact reason this should be centered around a discussion 19:22:58 [ryan_ramage]: benoitc: I am going to put on my apache nslater hat and say send the link/discussion to the ml 19:23:07 [benoitc]: https://plus.google.com/u/0/113807980501912604291/posts/EWgzb8dJeve 19:23:29 [benoitc]: yeah not time for that these days sorry 19:23:58 [benoitc]: wendall911: i would say ml + wiki 19:24:05 [wendall911]: Nice, I think I'm mostly concerned at this point with the underlying libs used for the view engine. Nodejs, V8 or spidermonkey 19:24:13 [benoitc]: imo would be good if we come with a full proposal 19:24:20 [wendall911]: agreed 19:24:20 [benoitc]: i've also spome doc i've zritten sometime ago 19:24:35 [ryan_ramage]: #info couch 2.0 query server proposal https://plus.google.com/u/0/113807980501912604291/posts/EWgzb8dJeve 19:24:50 [benoitc]: i think we should first discuss about th eprotocol 19:24:50 [wendall911]: benoitc: ok, I'll start a discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal 19:24:58 [benoitc]: then we could have alternative implementation 19:24:59 [benoitc]: s 19:25:20 [benoitc]: also relate questions: 19:25:28 [dch]: yeah maybe ask Samuel if he minds moving this to the wiki for moar discussion 19:25:29 [benoitc]: how the couchapp engine enter in that ? 19:25:35 [ryan_ramage]: #action wendall911 to start discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal 19:25:37 [benoitc]: couldn't we simpliify th ething ... 19:25:50 [benoitc]: chewbranca: has also started a thing or two 19:25:58 [benoitc]: dch: he did 19:26:07 [benoitc]: there is a post on the ml if I remember 19:26:28 [wendall911]: I'll dig through the archive a bit more and add to my email and wiki 19:26:30 [chewbranca]: hey, just getting here 19:26:43 [wendall911]: I have about 10 threads so far with comments around this issue that add value 19:26:43 [ryan_ramage]: welcome chewbranca 19:27:05 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: yeah would be good to gather on one place on the wiki 19:27:14 [chewbranca]: ACTION waves at ryan_ramage 19:27:58 [ryan_ramage]: chewbranca: I've been asked to run the show today, can I slot you in for some fauxton topic time? 19:28:13 [chewbranca]: sure, I can give a quick update on that 19:28:23 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: so we good to move on? 19:28:28 [wendall911]: ok, I think that's all for now on this. I'll followup on ML and wiki 19:28:28 [chewbranca]: I'm also very interested in alternative query engines 19:28:50 [chewbranca]: I would like to also propose or talk about separating couchapps from view engines 19:28:51 [ryan_ramage]: [off[ dch noted 19:28:58 [ryan_ramage]: bah 19:29:21 [benoitc]: chewbranca: can we put last topic on the l ? 19:29:23 [benoitc]: i have to go 19:29:29 [ryan_ramage]: ok, thanks benoitc 19:29:35 [chewbranca]: ok yeah, lets do that 19:29:43 [chewbranca]: I've got some code to link out for that too 19:29:50 [benoitc]: cool thx 19:29:50 [benoitc]: also nice 19:30:28 [ryan_ramage]: ok, moving on I think⦠19:31:00 [chewbranca]: sounds good # 5. erlang r13b04 # 19:31:06 [ryan_ramage]: dch: go 19:32:22 [ryan_ramage]: or anyoneâ¦I think the idea was⦠has anybody tested it lately? 19:32:29 [dch]: sorry, here. 19:33:13 [dch]: yup this turned up when I was fiddling with migrating to mochiweb 2.4.2, I had *lots* of failures, this on a std 12.04 ubuntu off ec2. 19:33:30 [dch]: so the question is, basically "does anybody use R13B04 at all?" 19:34:20 [wendall911]: dch: this is mainly centered around *very* old linux distros. Centos 5 and ~3 yr old debian/ubuntu 19:34:50 [dch]: wendall911: right, that's what I'm thinking. lucid for example or pre squeeze debian. 19:35:28 [wendall911]: I think the question is more a matter of how long we can add support for very old distributions. Those are still on 1.0 or earlier, so really not an issue, imo 19:35:43 [dch]: well I think we can roll the discussion into COUCHDB-1696 (the mochiweb migration ticket) 19:35:43 [wendall911]: and they are never going to see even 1.2.x 19:36:20 [dch]: ok that covers it then, thanks wendall911 19:36:43 [wendall911]: so it's really not a problem as I see it dropping support for it, as it's barely relevant. Anyone using Centos 5 for example, and needing 1.3.0 will need to probably upgrade a dozen or more packages themselves anyhow 19:36:58 [wendall911]: dch: np 19:37:35 [ryan_ramage]: ok, can someone sum up so I can put an info or action down? 19:38:23 [wendall911]: One small thing to add here 19:38:28 [dch]: #action dch to update COUCHDB-1696 and prod the list on it 19:38:35 [wendall911]: I brought this up on the list yesterday 19:39:13 [wendall911]: This could represent a breaking change for packagers. So, say we strip support from 1.3.x, it shouldn't get a patch bump, as it's a major dependency change. 19:39:20 [wendall911]: at least not from my perspective 19:40:20 [wendall911]: I don't think the api is the only important piece relevant to the semantic version. Might be wrong here, but these changes have implications for someone. 19:40:43 [wendall911]: and if it's a major version bump in a lib, or dropping support, can be problematic downstream 19:41:22 [dch]: I think the most likely move is that we set spidermonkey at 1.8.5 (so we can drop a lot of crufty code & autotools checks) and ditto for R14+ the same. 19:41:50 [dch]: for most current distros this won't break anything. 19:42:08 [dch]: and for older ones I assume packagers will not be bumping them anyway, unless via backports/epel. 19:42:13 [wendall911]: right, but dropping spidermonkey 1.7 is problematic, as it's still deemed relevant in newer distributions 19:42:28 [wendall911]: no, Centos 6 is the current release and it ships with 1.7 19:42:31 [dch]: SRSLY. 19:42:35 [wendall911]: RHEL, etc 19:42:38 [dch]: oh well, noted! 19:42:44 [wendall911]: yeah, spidermonkey doesn't have a history of encouraging updating ;) 19:43:40 [dch]: next topic? I think we are done 19:43:47 [ryan_ramage]: ok # 6. fauxton # 19:44:24 [ryan_ramage]: I should have some updates, but I sadly say I do not. chewbranca ? 19:45:16 [wendall911]: I have a question about coding style. Is this documented somewhere? 19:45:54 [wendall911]: I can rant for a while about nodejs style of javascript coding, but just wanting to know if we have a style guide. 19:46:09 [chewbranca]: hey 19:46:24 [chewbranca]: yeah, partially asleep right now 19:46:54 [chewbranca]: so I've got a branch pushed out that's rebuilding the routing system right now, specifically to address problems with full page reloads and shared state between subtabs and what not 19:47:32 [chewbranca]: if you haven't used fauxton yet, that probably doesn't make sense, but if you're familiar with it, you will have seen the random flickers and full page reloads for things that should only change part of the page 19:50:09 [ryan_ramage]: only thing I want to add is to make sure to add *fauxton* somewhere in the branch name so others can play when ci pushes out a build 19:50:46 [ryan_ramage]: chewbranca: do we have a style guide somewhere? wendall911 was asking 19:51:27 [ryan_ramage]: ok, trying to make this quickâ¦moving on # 7. GsoC # 19:52:11 [ryan_ramage]: dch: ? 19:52:39 [dch]: So we got into GSoC both as a project and as the foundation. 19:53:29 [dch]: I'd love if over the next 2 weeks we can do some propaganda (twitter, emails, local user groups etc) to invite students to join, and bring some more people into couch-love. 19:53:38 [dch]: so call for help on 2 folds; 19:54:13 [dch]: 1. everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise -> dch to send email 19:55:43 [dch]: 2. offer to mentor. 19:55:51 [dch]: that's basically it, a heads up. 19:55:58 [ryan_ramage]: #action everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise -> dch to send email 19:56:00 [dch]: #action dch to mail dev@ and user@ 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: for instance, I added pagination to _all_dbs, but because of this problem, every single page you go through would do a full page reload, which is a mistake for _all_dbs, because it does not support any proper limit or range functions, and you get every single value at once 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: so we don't want to reload all the things, but just change a few 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: anyways, started working on that this week, garren has been doing some great auth work that's coming along, and we've been doing a lot of misc cleanup to get things working well in fauxton 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: we would love to get more people using fauxton and doing some QA, if you find oddities, please file a JIRA ticket and we'll get it cleaned up 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: also, ryan_ramage, it doesn't look like the app on fauxton.iriscouch.com has been updated in a while, any ideas on that? I saw a failed test email, but haven't had a chance to look at it yet 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: and wendall911, back to your actual question, there isn't an official style guide, but I'm partial to most things in: http://nodeguide.com/style.html 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: that's it from me 19:56:28 [chewbranca]: wow... netsplit 19:56:36 [chewbranca]: did any of my messages get through? 19:56:37 [wendall911]: dch: where is the best place to do this right now? G+, cause hacker news and reddit aren't really producing much relevant or useful discussion lately. 19:56:38 [dch]: lols so thats what happens 19:56:58 [ryan_ramage]: wowza. time machine 19:56:58 [dch]: wendall911: I guess where ever you feel that works 19:57:37 [ryan_ramage]: #action ryan_ramage to check fauxton builds/deploys 19:57:37 [wendall911]: chewbranca: awesome. I think I agree with most of that :) 19:57:58 [chewbranca]: did a flood of messages from me eventually show up? 19:58:21 [ryan_ramage]: chewbranca: yeah. I think they came 19:58:43 [chewbranca]: wendall911: yeah, its kind of a random guide, but it think its a pretty good list 19:58:46 [chewbranca]: ryan_ramage: cool, thanks 19:58:59 [ryan_ramage]: #info offers to mentor are available for GSoC 19:59:05 [chewbranca]: wendall911: yeah good idea 19:59:21 [wendall911]: dch: ok, I'd love to get some attention, just not sure where all the cool kids hang out nowadays 19:59:23 [ryan_ramage]: ok dch, closing GSoC topic 19:59:29 [dch]: ACK. 19:59:43 [dch]: They hang out in #couchdb-dev :D 19:59:45 [wendall911]: hahaha # 8. open discussion # 19:59:51 [ryan_ramage]: anything else? 19:59:59 [wendall911]: I have one comment 20:00:06 [ryan_ramage]: 1 min closing bell 20:00:13 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: shoot 20:00:13 [wendall911]: I'd like to see the failing test on master get fixed 20:00:37 [wendall911]: so Travis can quit bugging me :) 20:00:50 [wendall911]: no discussion needed 20:01:35 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: when you say failing test, is it only one that is failing? 20:02:03 [wendall911]: make distcheck 20:02:11 [wendall911]: https://travis-ci.org/apache/couchdb/jobs/6205323 20:02:20 [wendall911]: oh, not a test, just distcheck is failing 20:02:33 [wendall911]: For some reason I thought it was a test 20:02:33 [chewbranca]: ahhh yeah looks like its failing on https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/src/fauxton/tasks/addon/rename.json 20:02:41 [wendall911]: I never run distcheck, only make && make check 20:02:42 [dch]: wendall911: nice piece of work on this btw 20:03:04 [wendall911]: dch: no problem, just a start :) 20:03:12 [chewbranca]: odd, looks like simon added that file to https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/license.skip#L116 20:03:48 [wendall911]: I have one other makefile issue that got pushed out in 1.3.0 I didn't catch 20:04:03 [wendall911]: I'll file a ticket and get it fixed later today. Was a minor issue with the manifest 20:04:26 [ryan_ramage]: ok gonna close this off
