+1. Looks way better.
On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 3:21 PM Christofer Dutz
<christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Hi all and especially Rich …
>
> I love your version … and yes … I really need to focus more on the “what you
> get”
> and less on “why where you’re at sucks” sort of narrative ;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Peter Hunsberger <peter.hunsber...@gmail.com>
> Datum: Freitag, 4. August 2023 um 15:06
> An: dev@community.apache.org <dev@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 7:45 AM <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>
> > Ok, I propose this alternative approach - more on the "here's how
> > things are getting better" tone than the "Here's how things were awful"
> > tone, and half the length:
> >
> > --------
> >
> >
> > Subject: Mailing list threading improvements
> > To: dev@
> >
> > Dear Apache project developers,
> >
> > TL;DR: We’re updating how auto-generated email from Github will be
> > threaded on your mailing lists. If you want to keep the old defaults,
> > details are below.
> >
> > We’re pleased to let you know that we’re tweaking the way that auto-
> > generated email from Github will appear on your mailing lists. This
> > will lead to more human-readable subject lines, and the ability of most
> > modern mail clients to correctly thread discussions originating on
> > Github.
> >
> > Background: Many project lists receive email auto-generated on Github.
> > The way that the subject lines are crafted leads to messages from the
> > same topic not being threaded together by most mail clients. We’re
> > fixing that.
> >
> > The way that these messages are threaded is defined by a file -
> > .asf.yml - in your git repositories. We’re changing the way that it
> > will work by default if you don’t choose settings. The change will
> > happen on {DATE}
> >
> > Details of the current default, as well as the proposed changes, are on
> > this page, along with instructions on how to keep your current
> > settings, if you prefer:
> >
> >
> > https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> >
> > Chris, on behalf of the Comdev PMC
> >
>
> +1
>
> This seems concise and would be a welcome change
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2023-08-04 at 07:30 -0400, Rich Bowen wrote:
> > > As discussed offline, I feel like the tone of this messaging is
> > > wrong. Give me a bit to get to my desk and I will propose an
> > > alternate draft.
> > >
> > > Shosholoza,
> > > Rich
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 4, 2023, 04:43 Christofer Dutz
> > > <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Here comes a draft for an email I would like to send out.
> > > >
> > > > Not quite sure which audience we should choose … committers,
> > > > (p)pmcs?
> > > >
> > > > Also, not quite sure about the timeframe? As I know Infra merges
> > > > PRs on Thursdays, I would propose the 17th of August 2023 as date
> > > > for the change to be made. This would give project almost 2 weeks
> > > > to react and adjust their .asf.yml files, if they wish to stay at
> > > > the current defaults.
> > > >
> > > > So, I wasn’t sure, if I should add links to examples, as it would
> > > > be putting the project acting as negative example in an unfortunate
> > > > spotlight and using date ranges in ponymail links has been not
> > > > quite successful in the past.
> > > >
> > > > What do you folks think?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear {Committers/members of the Apache PMCs},
> > > >
> > > > over the years have we added additional options for discussing
> > > > project matters on a big variety of alternate locations and systems
> > > > besides email lists, such as JIRA and GitHub.
> > > > Especially GitHub has been growing in acceptance, as it generally
> > > > allows participating without requiring yet another login.
> > > >
> > > > GitHub currently allows discussing things using: GitHub Issues,
> > > > GitHub PRs and GitHub Discussions.
> > > > Infra has built tooling, that forwards these discussions to our
> > > > mailing-lists.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, some defaults were chosen, which have resulted in
> > > > many dev-lists being swamped with emails, for which no email-client
> > > > was able to implement any form of threading.
> > > > Some projects simply reacted by redirecting these emails to lists,
> > > > such as notifications@ or commits@.
> > > > Some projects even completely gave up communicating via email lists
> > > > and only “come back” for voting.
> > > > Even if the requirement “If it didn’t happen on the list, it didn’t
> > > > happen” sort of is fulfilled, it no longer fulfills what the core
> > > > of this rule was:
> > > > To allow someone to asynchronously participate and find out what’s
> > > > happening in a project without requiring any form of login and to
> > > > have some sort of archive of all discussions about Apache projects
> > > > on Apache hardware.
> > > >
> > > > In Comdev we have been discussing how we could possibly address
> > > > this and bring back the usefulness of our mailing-lists.
> > > > The tooling Infra provides us with, already allows individual
> > > > projects to change the settings of the auto-generated emails and
> > > > several projects have already done so, with great success.
> > > >
> > > > Comdev has therefore proposed to change the default settings for
> > > > auto-generated emails sent out for GitHub.
> > > > These changes will not change anything for projects hat already
> > > > manage how the emails should be formatted in their .asf.yml files,
> > > > but it will affect all projects, that didn’t explicitly do that.
> > > >
> > > > For all projects willing to stay at the current format, we
> > > > encourage to have a look at this page and prepare their “.asf.yml”
> > > > files accordingly:
> > > > https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html
> > > > (This page currently lists the current defaults here
> > > >
> > https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > > > as well as the proposed changes)
> > > > We will be changing the defaults on {date here}, so you still have
> > > > some time to prepare.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Chris, on behalf of the Comdev PMC
> >
> >
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