Hi all, Roger - thanks for approaching this so thoughtfully. I've been reading this thread with interest and also have looked over the Apache Pivot website a bit.
I agree with what Rich wrote, but would also add a few things / ask a few questions: - If I look at the Apache Pivot site it looks like the project is inactive. You mention you've been contributing to Pivot for 5 years, but the last release on the site (the last news of any kind) is from 2017. I see some Pivot 2.0.5 artifacts that seem to have been touched in 2020, but it also lists the most recent release (as of 2017) as Pivot 2.0.5. If a project is not releasing anything, and doesn't update its site - prospective users and contributors are likely going to assume it's inactive. You also mention that there are "more capable" alternatives to Pivot with corporate support and that one of the "main attractions" is "now completely gone." So I guess my question is - what problem does the project solve now that users urgently need solved, to the point that they would be moved to use + contribute Apache Pivot? Is Pivot still solving a problem for users that they need solved? Answering that question is probably the top priority before taking next steps. One of the reasons the ASF has the Attic is that we know open source projects will often (eventually) outlive their usefulness and it's better for users and contributors to have a wind-down process to "put away" the project. If there are pending releases that need votes, etc. and Pivot still solves real problems for users, it's worth trying to recruit new PMC members to keep the project going. Otherwise I'd strongly consider moving it to the Attic and I'm sure there are other ASF projects that would welcome your contributions! Best, jzb On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 1:54 AM Roger Whitcomb <rogerandb...@rbwhitcomb.com> wrote: > Hi RIch, > Thank you so much for the insights. I have thought about many of these > things, and I don’t have much to say, but .. > * I came relatively late to the project, so I wasn’t involved in setting > up the committer bar, etc., but I don’t think there was anyone who > contributed that wasn’t offered committership. > * I intend to email the dev and user lists as you suggest. I have just > replied to Claude on this thread with roughly what I would discuss on the > MLs. > * I was employed by a company that was actively using Pivot, but have been > laid off now for over a year, so I don’t think they have any interest > anymore…. There could be others, so I will attempt to find. > * Biggest problem, technically, is that applets have been killed, so one > of the main attractions of Pivot is now completely gone. In addition, > JavaFX was partly designed by one of the Pivot architects, so now there is > a more capable alternative to Pivot, but very similar in design, and > supported by Oracle, so …. > > Again, thank you. > ~Roger > > On Aug 23, 2021, at 6:29 AM, Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com<mailto: > rbo...@rcbowen.com>> wrote: > > > > On 8/20/21 1:11 PM, Roger Whitcomb wrote: > Hi all, > My name is Roger Whitcomb and I’m the current PMC Chair for the Apache > Pivot project. The Pivot community has been dwindling for a number of > years, to where I am essentially the only one working / contributing to it > for probably 5 years now. Recently (well 6 months ago), the necessary 3rd > (active) PMC member resigned, and so we are left with just two of us who > have demonstrated any readiness to respond to votes, etc. So, I have been, > in my quarterly Board reports, raising awareness that we’re in trouble > because of the lack of sufficient oversight. The responses to my last > report were to the effect that I should either contact ComDev to see if > there were ideas / suggestions about rebooting or raising interest in the > project, OR talk to the Attic folks about moving there. Since I’m still > actively working on the project, trying to reboot things still seems good, > even though privately I have serious doubts that this could happen. > So, why am I contacting you? Well, precisely to get thoughts / ideas / > suggestions, if there are any, on how to at least raise interest to the > point of recruiting another PMC member for oversight of the project. > Secondly, has anyone here been in this position before? If so, what > happened? Any thoughts about alternatives? I have thought about retiring > the project to the Attic, but then forking to Github (or similar) to > continue the work I’m doing. However, that seems like a LOT of work > (probably including changing names, changing all the packages, etc, etc.) > and I’m not sure of the legal ramifications, since copyright (I assume) > would remain with the ASF still. Anyway, I will have a separate > conversation with Legal about this, I suppose. > Bottom line: anyone able to give some advice? > > > (Apologies if you have already tried all of these things, but ...) > > The first thing I would recommend is to tell the users list about the > concerns, and describe specific opportunities to contribute. In many (even > most?) projects, the vast majority of users are content to consume, and > never even think about contributing. If you communicate that the project is > likely to be terminated if nobody steps up, you may see a handful of people > who are willing to do so - particularly if they are at companies that rely > on the project. > > Identifying specific tasks that need to be done (including a PMC role) is > always more effective than a general call for help. > > This may also be the time to consider whether your requirements (written > or not) for committer rights have been too high. Perhaps there are people > out there who have contributed, over the years, but were not deemed worthy > of committer rights. Over time, this leads to missing out on potential > community members. Look back over the past few years and see who has sent > in patches, or other non-code contributions, and approach them about their > willingness to participate at a higher level. > > Do you know of any companies/orgs that are relying on the project? I would > encourage you to reach out to someone at those companies and tell them that > the project is facing retirement, if nobody steps up to contribute and > lead. That can also be very effective in finding some managers willing to > give some of their employee time to sustain the project rather than having > to retool. > > > -- > Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com<mailto:rbo...@rcbowen.com> > @rbowen > > -- Joe Brockmeier Vice President Marketing & Publicity j...@apache.org
