Adrian, You're not too old-fashioned, in fact you have a good point that may not appear so obvious to others on this list. I personally resigned to the idea that to do "cloud" you really, _really_ need to know what you're doing, otherwise it will end in tears. I experienced this first hand, but perhaps there is a way to make this easier the others.
Let's keep at this and perhaps we can come up with something to tease the hobbyists and the SMB admins. Lucian -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Lewis" <adr...@alsiconsulting.co.uk> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > Cc: "sebgoa" <run...@gmail.com>, "Paul Angus" <paul.an...@shapeblue.com> > Sent: Thursday, 2 April, 2015 14:46:09 > Subject: RE: CentOS Cloud SIG effort > Hi Lucian, > > This is still a very devops/developer centric approach which in my opinion > is rife within the ACS community (understandably) and which is inadvertently > hostile/elitist to many who might otherwise be interested. I think that many > regular sys admins who perhaps don't want to get involved with docker, > github, compiling stuff, running 3rd party provisioning scripts etc and just > want to run up a quick POC would end up being alienated by this - they don’t > have the time to learn these sorts of technologies if they would never use > them otherwise. Obviously to most of the audience in this list that's not > the case but I really think that there are a lot of potential (albeit likely > small) deployments out there where the admins run a mile if getting > something to work involves the word 'git' or even 'mailing-list'. These > people just go out and buy vCloud Director instead or do without. Citrix > would probably get more customers for CloudPlatform as well if it were very > simple to try out ACS. > > ACS needs hobbyists and sys admins in SMBs as well in my opinion, not just > devops people in large corporations or service providers. More people > playing with it and in turn talking/blogging about it and raising its > profile will help immensely. These people need to be convinced that > #Cloudstackworks. > > Get packages into Debian/Ubuntu and there's an even greater audience. Grab > the long tail and the rest of the beast comes with it. > > Just my opinion btw - perhaps I'm too old-fashioned and need to learn more. > > Adrian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nux! [mailto:n...@li.nux.ro] > Sent: 02 April 2015 13:01 > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > Cc: sebgoa; Paul Angus > Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort > > Hi Adrian > >> Pretty sure that if getting the management server up and running was >> as simple as... >> 1. Install CentOS >> 2. yum install cloudstack >> 3. setup-cloudstack-all-in-one.sh >> ...we'd see many more people at least trying it out. >> >> Some might see the current installation options as easy enough but if >> someone could get it up and running without even looking at the docs, >> I reckon they'd be more likely to do it and then consult the docs when >> they got stuck. > > This reminds me of https://github.com/thehyperadvisor/cldstk-deploy , though > there could certainly more/better ideas on how to ease things up, at least > for a PoC. > I'm sure Sebastien will quickly propose docker. :) > >> >> If the packages could be put into the centos-extras repo that would do >> the trick. I'm sure there's more to it than my simplistic idea but >> could we discuss the viability of this? > > I think this will be difficult to achieve, though I am short on proper > details, I believe the way we (in cloudstack) ship some stuff - particularly > java stuff - is not exactly kosher from a RedHat packaging point of view. > They have their own routine, practices and so on. Furthermore, let's say we > get that right, keeping it up to date in their repo will also be quite an > effort. > I think the idea is good and in an ideal world it's how we'd do it, but > right now with the release cadence of Cloudstack and our few resources, it's > something that - simply - it's not worth doing. > >> We could do with a one-stop script that does everything for the user >> including installing the mysql/mariadb server aspect & even setting up >> NFS shares on the same box (leaving the other more granular setup >> scripts for 'advanced' users. If centos-extras is not feasible, how >> about EPEL? Might even get some Fedora people interested as well (if >> it works on Fedora). > > See the ansible link I gave above. > Re EPEL and Fedora, they're having trouble maintaining their own stuff, i.e. > they removed openstack from there and are maintaining separate repositories > at https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/openstack/ > >> >> Pretty sure that this particular CentOS SIG is about running the >> management/infrastructure side of things as opposed to running centos >> as a guest in case anyone is unsure. Although clearly related, earlier >> comments about cloud-init are surely more related to another CentOS >> SIG (Cloud >> Instance) aren't they? > > Yep, CentOS Cloud Instance SIG is a different project meant to get CentOS > running on all major cloud platforms. This one is somehow successful in that > their official image will boot in Cloudstack and get a ssh key if one is > set, even execute user data, but there are many bugs and other problems. Far > from ideal; it would be great if someone with python skills would take up > polishing the cloud-init Cloudstack source a bit, perhaps as part of GSoC. > > My stance on all this is, bother less with packaging or inclusion in CentOS > official repos and focus more on getting it to work as smoothly as possible. > > Also, attending the CentOS events with presentations on Cloudstack is a > great idea to raise some awareness. > > /imho > > Lucian
