> I have submitted a proposal to Cassandra Summit for a 4-hour Harry workshop, I'm about to need to harry test for the paging across tombstone work for https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18424 (that's where my own overlapping fuzzing came in). In the process, I'll see if I can't distill something really simple along the lines of how React approaches it (https://react.dev/learn).
Ideally we'd be able to get something together that's a high level "In the next 15 minutes, you will know and understand A-G and have access to N% of the power of harry" kind of offer. Honestly, there's a *lot* in our ecosystem where we could benefit from taking a page from their book in terms of onboarding and getting started IMO. On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Alex Petrov wrote: > > I wonder if a mini-onboarding session would be good as a community session > > - go over Harry, how to run it, how to add a test? Would that be the right > > venue? I just would like to see how we can not only plug it in to regular > > CI but get everyone that wants to add a test be able to know how to get > > started with it. > > I have submitted a proposal to Cassandra Summit for a 4-hour Harry workshop, > but unfortunately it got declined. Goes without saying, we can still do it > online, time and resources permitting. But again, I do not think it should be > barring us from making Harry a part of the codebase, as it already is. In > fact, we can be iterating on the development quicker having it in-tree. > > We could go over some interesting examples such as testing 2i (SAI), > modelling Group By tests, or testing repair. If there is enough appetite and > collaboration in the community, I will see if we can pull something like that > together. Input on _what_ you would like to see / hear / tested is also > appreciated. Harry was developed out of a strong need for large-scale > testing, which also has informed many of its APIs, but we can make it easier > to access for interactive testing / unit tests. We have been doing a lot of > that with Transactional Metadata, too. > > > I'll hold off on this until Alex Petrov chimes in. @Alex -> got any > > thoughts here? > > Yes, sorry for not responding on this thread earlier. I can not understate > how excited I am about this, and how important I think this is. Time > constraints are somehow hard to overcome, but I hope the results brought by > TCM will make it all worth it. > > On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:23 PM, Alex Petrov wrote: >> I think pulling Harry into the tree will make adoption easier for the folks. >> I have been a bit swamped with Transactional Metadata work, but I wanted to >> make some of the things we were using for testing TCM available outside of >> TCM branch. This includes a bunch of helper methods to perform operations on >> the clusters, data generation, and more useful stuff. Of course, the >> question always remains about how much time I want to spend porting it all >> to Gossip, but I think we can find a reasonable compromise. >> >> I would not set this improvement as a prerequisite to pulling Harry into the >> main branch, but rather interpret it as a commitment from myself to take >> community input and make it more approachable by the day. >> >> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 2:44 PM, Josh McKenzie wrote: >>>> importantly it’s a million times better than the dtest-api process - which >>>> stymies development due to the friction. >>> This is my major concern. >>> >>> What prompted this thread was harry being external to the core codebase and >>> the lack of adoption and usage of it having led to atrophy of certain >>> aspects of it, which then led to redundant implementation of some fuzz >>> testing and lost time. >>> >>> We'd all be better served to have this closer to the main codebase as a >>> forcing function to smooth out the rough edges, integrate it, and make it a >>> collective artifact and first class citizen IMO. >>> >>> I have similar opinions about the dtest-api. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:05 AM, Benedict wrote: >>>> >>>> It’s not without hiccups, and I’m sure we have more to learn. But it >>>> mostly just works, and importantly it’s a million times better than the >>>> dtest-api process - which stymies development due to the friction. >>>> >>>>> On 24 May 2023, at 08:39, Mick Semb Wever <m...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> WRT git submodules and CASSANDRA-18204, are we happy with how it is >>>>> working for accord ? >>>>> >>>>> The time spent on getting that running has been a fair few hours, where >>>>> we could have cut many manual module releases in that time. >>>>> >>>>> David and folks working on accord ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 23 May 2023 at 20:09, Josh McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>> __ >>>>>> I'll hold off on this until Alex Petrov chimes in. @Alex -> got any >>>>>> thoughts here? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 16, 2023, at 5:17 PM, Jeremy Hanna wrote: >>>>>>> I think it would be great to onboard Harry more officially into the >>>>>>> project. However it would be nice to perhaps do some sanity checking >>>>>>> outside of Apple folks to see how approachable it is. That is, can >>>>>>> someone take it and just run it with the current readme without any >>>>>>> additional context? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder if a mini-onboarding session would be good as a community >>>>>>> session - go over Harry, how to run it, how to add a test? Would that >>>>>>> be the right venue? I just would like to see how we can not only plug >>>>>>> it in to regular CI but get everyone that wants to add a test be able >>>>>>> to know how to get started with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jeremy >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 16, 2023, at 1:34 PM, Abe Ratnofsky <a...@aber.io> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just to make sure I'm understanding the details, this would mean >>>>>>>> apache/cassandra-harry maintains its status as a separate repository, >>>>>>>> apache/cassandra references it as a submodule, and clones and builds >>>>>>>> Harry locally, rather than pulling a released JAR. We can then >>>>>>>> reference Harry as a library without maintaining public artifacts for >>>>>>>> it. Is that in line with what you're thinking? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > I'd also like to see us get a Harry run integrated as part of our >>>>>>>> > pre-commit CI >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm a strong supporter of this, of course. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 16, 2023, at 11:03 AM, Josh McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Similar to what we've done with accord in >>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18204, I'd like to >>>>>>>>> discuss bringing cassandra-harry in-tree as a submodule. repo link: >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/cassandra-harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Given the value it's brought to the project's stabilization efforts >>>>>>>>> and the movement of other things in the ecosystem to being more >>>>>>>>> integrated (accord, build-scripts >>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18133), I think >>>>>>>>> having the testing framework better localized and integrated would be >>>>>>>>> a net benefit for adoption, awareness, maintenance, and tighter >>>>>>>>> workflows as we troubleshoot future failures it surfaces. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd also like to see us get a Harry run integrated as part of our >>>>>>>>> pre-commit CI (a 5 minute simple soak test for instance) and having >>>>>>>>> that local in this fashion should make that a cleaner integration as >>>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>> >>> >> >
