+1 to semver, shippable trunk, feature flags, and better documentation about 
feature support and compatibility edges - we should have a single page with a 
table of version x feature, with a summary and links to detailed explanations 
of everything important a user should be aware of.

I didn't really understand the unreleased versions proposal though.

On 30/04/2021, 20:00, "Joshua McKenzie" <jmcken...@apache.org> wrote:

    Success of this seems predicated on keeping trunk shippable, which means
    getting Harry and things like adelphi into CI/CD sooner rather than later.

    I've definitely come around to Ariel's thinking about the value of having
    an *actually* shippable trunk + the value of feature flags for things. It's
    a heavy lift to ensure shippability with something as complex as Cassandra,
    but if we can figure that out it'll go a long way towards us being able to
    move forward faster as a project while remaining safe.

    +1

    On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 2:52 PM Jeremiah D Jordan 
<jeremiah.jor...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    > +1 for doing this (or something similar).  It will give more clarity to
    > downstream users about the compatibility of a given release.
    >
    > -Jeremiah
    >
    > > On Apr 30, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Mick Semb Wever <m...@apache.org> wrote:
    > >
    > > *** Proposal ***
    > > Aligned to the agreed-upon annual cadence of supported releases, let's
    > > use semantic versioning for better ecosystem operatibility, and to
    > > promote API awareness and compatibility support from documentation to
    > > tests.
    > >
    > >
    > > *** Background ***
    > > The recent¹ dev ML thread 'Releases after 4.0' landed on an annual
    > > release cadence, and for promoting an always shippable trunk (repeated
    > > again in the roadmap thread²).
    > >
    > > A digression that occurred in the thread was around the use of
    > > semantic versioning, and the possible role of properly using major and
    > > minor versions within the annual release cycle. This proposal is an
    > > attempt to take those points of view and build them on everything else
    > > we have agreed upon so far.
    > >
    > >
    > > *** Ecosystem Operability ***
    > > The Cassandra codebase has an ecosystem around it. From downstream
    > > projects to vendors providing support for versions to managed DBaaS.
    > >
    > > We can help them out with semver, and by providing unreleased minor
    > > versions through the year. Unreleased means we don’t do a formal
    > > Apache release approval, we just bump the version in `build.xml`.
    > > Downstream projects face overhead when, either trying to keep up with
    > > trunk through each annual development cycle, or trying to rebase
    > > against a whole year's worth of development once each year.
    > > Unreleased versions will provide safe points for the ecosystem to plug
    > > into and keep up with. Vendors are also free to support and provide
    > > hot-fixes and back ports on these unreleased versions, outside of the
    > > community's efforts or concerns. And of course semver provides a lot
    > > of value to downstream codebases.
    > >
    > >
    > > *** API and Compatibility Awareness ***
    > > The idea here is to provide awareness and improved documentation to
    > > our APIs, their audience, and to what compatibility is required on
    > > them. Personally, I still struggle getting my head around all the ways
    > > Cassandra can break its APIs and what to think about and to test when
    > > coding.
    > >
    > > This is important for ensuring availability during upgrades
    > > (mix-version clusters), and again important if we want to introduce
    > > data-safe downgrades. This stuff doesn't get (battle-) tested enough.
    > > The native protocol bump to v6 was an example for the need to be
    > > better at documenting and testing what's involved (across the
    > > ecosystem).
    > >
    > > The consequences of breaking compatibility range from documentation,
    > > and tests, to mixed versioned clusters, upgrade and rollback
    > > operations. Semantic versioning is a way of foreseeing and preparing
    > > for such changes. In practice this can be done
    > >  a) using different fixVersions in jira ticket, and
    > >  b) lazy-incrementing the major version in trunk when the first
    > > breaking change lands in the development cycle.
    > >
    > > For example, we enter the next development cycle with Jira fixVersions
    > > of "4.X" and "5.X", and an initial trunk version of "4.1". Then when a
    > > committer merges the first "5.X" ticket they bump trunk's version up
    > > to "5.0".
    > >
    > > This approach incentivises patches to be aware and to better document
    > > the breakage, and comes with the added benefit for the ecosystem of
    > > identifying where in the development cycle the compatibility first
    > > broke.
    > >
    > > Some examples of compatibility areas are CQL, Native Protocol, gossip,
    > > JMX, Metrics, Virtual Tables, SSTable, CDC, Commitlog, FQL, and
    > > Auditing. Many of these don't have enough documentation of how they
    > > are versioned and compatibility. As we add pluggability (i.e. SPIs)
    > > both the need to document this, and to be closer with the ecosystem
    > > increases.
    > >
    > >
    > > *** Example for 2021-2022 ***
    > > Illustrating this in action, with a cadence of a minor version every
    > quarter,
    > >
    > > - today, we branch `cassandra-4.0` and increment trunk to 4.1
    > > - commits roll into trunk, no "5.X" tickets have landed yet,
    > > - in July we increment the version to 4.2, no release is made or
    > announced,
    > > - commits continue to roll into trunk, still no "5.X" tickets have
    > landed yet,
    > > - in October we increment the version to 4.3
    > > - commits continue to roll into trunk, a "5.X" patch lands, trunk is
    > > incremented to 5.0
    > > - in January 2022 we increment the value to 5.1, no release is made or
    > > announced,
    > > - commits continue to roll into trunk,
    > > - in April 2022 we formally release 5.1 and branch `cassandra-5.1`
    > >
    > >
    > > The cadence of those minor versions could be anything, quarterly,
    > > monthly or on-demand. This practice will force us to organise and
    > > automate dealing with version changes, creating our release branches,
    > > organising our test upgrade version paths. I'm gathering that process
    > > currently in CASSANDRA-16642.
    > >
    > > Jeremiah originally (and in more depth) illustrated this here:
    > >
    > 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r9b53342e6992cf98e8b95e763f63d19c798765be3bd86436f07afa8c%40%3Cdev.cassandra.apache.org%3E
    > >
    > >
    > > *** Concerns ***
    > > Addressing the questions and concerns that were previously raised.
    > >
    > > We have a problematic history with release versioning. This proposal
    > > is not tick-tock. It is about known best-practices around semver
    > > version numbers. This does not add the overhead of additional releases
    > > or release branches to the community.
    > >
    > > Long development cycles with only a (major) release every year will be
    > > an opposite force to our efforts to maintain an always shippable
    > > trunk. Semver, closer and more frequent feedback from the ecosystem,
    > > and better API awareness, all help us maintain an always shippable
    > > trunk. This was touched on by Benedict's "quarterly 'develop'
    > > releases" and by Benjamin's "bleeding edge snapshots where we do not
    > > guarantee stability".
    > >
    > > Individual features, new and old, still can be marked with their own
    > > maturity-state flag, e.g. experimental, unstable, stable, deprecated.
    > > This is all aside to semver, though it is part of, and feeds into, the
    > > API awareness. Deprecating and removing individual features should be
    > > easier too, as their lifecycle avoids being tied to the annual
    > > releases.
    > >
    > > "Our major/minor history has been a meaningless distinction". This
    > > proposal is an attempt to fix that. With better API awareness, and a
    > > way to appease the ecosystem getting what they need sooner, I believe
    > > it will help us better limit what we put into our patch releases.
    > >
    > > Could we cut releases off such quarterly minor releases but not
    > > maintain them? This was the general proposition in the previous
    > > thread, and while it is possible, and would leave such unsupported
    > > releases in an easy to download location with the ASF, it is left out
    > > for simplicity's sake. All downstreams can use the minor versions
    > > easily enough with or without a formal ASF compliant release. But it
    > > is something we can add in the future if called for and we have the
    > > bandwidth for. It could also be possible to better stage our
    > > development builds (using nexus, artifactory, etc).
    > >
    > >
    > > *** Summary ***
    > > I'm creating the cassandra-4.0 branch and will bump trunk to version
    > > "4.1" for now, until the discussion lands… I'm sure there's other
    > > concerns and suggestions.
    > > I can also write this up as a CEP if that's called for.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > [1]
    > 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/re15543b55e5d01245ad75f7ec35af97e9895d37c01562eab31963dd4%40%3Cdev.cassandra.apache.org%3E
    > > [2]
    > 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r611316edc1c6b8d331994b4625c1a4d52ae5d5aee0bf4a158b2618ba%40%3Cdev.cassandra.apache.org%3E
    > >
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