I think, just as importantly, we also need to grapple with what went wrong when
features landed this way, since these were not isolated occurrences -
suggesting structural issues were at play.
I'm not sure if a retrospective is viable with this organisational structure,
but we can perhaps engage with it implicitly, in a positive way, by working to
create a framework with clear expectations for how features should be delivered
- to go hand-in-hand with CEP proposals.
This framework can then also be applied to existing features considered to be
inadequate, as we decide how to move forward with them.
On 30/06/2020, 22:01, "sankalp kohli" <kohlisank...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I think we should revisit all features which require a lot more work to
make them work. Here is how I think we should do for each one of them
1. Identify such features and some details of why they are deprecation
candidates.
2. Ask the dev list if anyone is willing to work on improving them over the
next 1 or 2 major releases.
3. We then move to the user list to find who all are using it and if they
are opposed to removing/deprecating it. Assuming few will be using it, we
need to see the tradeoff of keeping it vs removing it on a case by case
basis.
4. Deprecate it in the next major or make it experimental if #2 and #3
removes them from deprecation.
5. Remove it in next major
For MV, I see this email as step #2. We should move to asking the user list
next.
Thanks,
Sankalp
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:46 PM Joshua McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org>
wrote:
> We're just short of 98 tickets on the component since it's original merge
> so at least *some* work has been done to stabilize them. Not to say I'm
> endorsing running them at massive scale today without knowing what you're
> doing, to be clear. They are perhaps our largest loaded gun of a feature
of
> self-foot-shooting atm. Zhao did a bunch of work on them internally and
> we've backported much of that to OSS; I've pinged him to chime in here.
>
> The "data is orphaned in your view when you lose all base replicas" issue
> is more or less "unsolvable", since a scan of a view to confirm data in
the
> base table is so slow you're talking weeks to process and it totally
> trashes your page cache. I think Paulo landed on a "you have to rebuild
the
> view if you lose all base data" reality. There's also, I believe, the
> unresolved issue of modeling how much data a base table with one to many
> views will end up taking up in its final form when denormalized. This
could
> be vastly improved with something like an "EXPLAIN ANALYZE" for a table
> with views, if you'll excuse the mapping, to show "N bytes in base will
> become M with base + views" or something.
>
> Last but definitely not least in dumping the state in my head about this,
> there's a bunch of potential for guardrailing people away from self-harm
> with MV's if we decide to go the route of guardrails (link:
>
>
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/%28DRAFT%29+-+CEP-3%3A+Guardrails
> ).
>
> So from my PoV, I'm against us just voting to deprecate and remove
without
> going into more depth into the current state of things and what options
are
> on the table, since people will continue to build MV's at the client level
> which, in theory, should have worse correctness and performance
> characteristics than having a clean and well stabilized implementation in
> the coordinator.
>
> Having them flagged as experimental for now as we stabilize 4.0 and get
> things out the door *seems* sufficient to me, but if people are widely
> using these out in the wild and ignoring that status and the corresponding
> warning, maybe we consider raising the volume on that warning for 4.0
while
> we figure this out.
>
> Just my .02.
>
> ~Josh
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:22 PM Dinesh Joshi <djo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 30, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Jon Haddad <j...@jonhaddad.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > As we move forward with the 4.0 release, we should consider this an
> > > opportunity to deprecate materialized views, and remove them in 5.0.
> We
> > > should take this opportunity to learn from the mistake and raise the
> bar
> > > for new features to undergo a much more thorough run the wringer
before
> > > merging.
> >
> > I'm in favor of marking them as deprecated and removing them in 5.0. If
> > someone steps up and can fix them in 5.0, then we always have the option
> of
> > accepting the fix.
> >
> > Dinesh
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> >
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