Thanks for that insight Pavel. Will be a helpful and useful reference as we start to test out our CEP process after 4.0 solidifies. One thing that really stood out to me worth calling out: > > > > - Engage the wider Swift community in the ongoing evolution of Swift, > and > > > - Maintain the vision and conceptual coherence of Swift. > > There is a natural tension between these two goals. Open evolution > processes are, by nature, chaotic. Yet, maintaining a coherent vision for > something as complicated as a programming language requires some level of > coordination. The Swift evolution process aims to strike a balance that > best serves the Swift community as a whole.
I'd love us to follow up on that topic (future vision, coherence, etc) on the project after we iron out our voting and governance process. So that being said - there's no further feedback on the doc in its current form. Anybody else have any thoughts on where things stand? On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 1:55 PM Pavel Yaskevich <pove...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 3:12 AM Mick Semb Wever <m...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > With regards to CEPs, I personally don't see any value in voting to > > start > > > one. > > > > > > Agree with this, and I'd go even further - requiring a vote in order to > > > propose an idea runs so counter to the idea of a CEP that it would > > default > > > the purpose of even having them. The CEP is the _proposal_ for a > change > > > that gets fleshed out enough so people can understand the idea and > _then_ > > > vote on it, not the other way around. > > > > > > Totally agree that CEPs should be as light-weight as possible, and with > the > > sentiments above. But would also like to keep the discussion open to > > encourage and include as many voices as possible. > > > > My _questioning_ is around the value in "initial exposure and > discussion". > > It is implied already that there is lazy consensus in starting a CEP, and > > that starting a CEP is more than just an initial proposal of an idea. One > > example is we require a CEP to have a Shepherd that is a PMC member. > > Encouraging a vote, or better-yet keeping it light-weight: an initial > > DISCUSS thread as early as possible in the CEP lifecycle does come with > > value. From openly calling out for a Shepherd, to allowing the more > > experienced community members to add their insight (without having to get > > formally involved in it), there's potential value in encouraging such > > open-mode opening discussion early on (versus the cost of additional > > process). > > > > Really interested in hearing from folk from other communities and > projects > > that do CEP/CIP and how their lifecycle through the process works and > what > > they have learnt. > > > > Here is a description of the process Swift Programming Language uses - > https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md. >
