I realized I'm repeating myself a bit here with my reasoning, my apologies. I'll emphasize that the dependencies are the strongest factor, in that over time we have to pin more and more dependencies to older versions. I think code/stack modernization would be nice and the biggest feature I'm looking forward to is Arrow integration with the new FFM APIs in Java 22. However, modernization hasn't been the biggest priority yet mainly due to contributor capacity. I imagine if we start filing GitHub issues with improvement ideas, contributors might start picking them up over time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 12:01 PM Dane Pitkin <dpit...@apache.org> wrote: > Hi Laurent, > > Kudos again for doing the migration from Java 8 -> 11 in Arrow. That was a > large contribution, thank you! > > I see a few reasons to drop Java 11: > - Java 11 official support ended September 2023, but it will receive > extended support until 2032. > - Dependencies are upgrading at a faster pace. For example, ORC v2.0 > supports Java 17+. > > Thanks, > Dane > > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2024 at 11:51 AM Laurent Goujon <laur...@dremio.com.invalid> > wrote: > >> I think like last time we should see where the community is as a whole on >> JDK version support? Just looking at Spark may not be enough to get a >> sense >> that it is okay to drop Java 11. Overall I think we should at least give 2 >> major versions before removing support. >> >> When I did the migration from Java 8 to Java 11, most of the updates were >> on the toolchain but I haven't seen a lot of code changes which would not >> compile with Java 8. And so I'm not sure what we expect from Java 17 in >> terms of code changes and or stack/modernization. @Dane, could you >> elaborate maybe? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Laurent >> >> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 5:30 PM Vibhatha Abeykoon <vibha...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > Thanks Dane for once again pushing the topic on Java language support. >> > In terms of project maintenance and long term growth, I am happy with >> this >> > change. >> > >> > Regarding the usage of `--add-opens`, it would still be okay, given the >> > fact that we provided that option either way. >> > But in future, I think we should figure out a way to do this better. >> > >> > Although as you suggested, it would be best to gather feedback from the >> > community, >> > specifically that we have already done a minimum version upgrade very >> > recently. >> > Also, it would be better to do this around v20 or v21 if we agree to >> move >> > forward. The reason >> > is it would at least give enough time for some users to get ready for a >> > change. Again this may require >> > consensus in the community. Also we can take another consensus from the >> > github dependabot PRs, >> > it provides a hint on how much technical burden and vulnerabilities we >> have >> > to keep up when we don't >> > upgrade the minimal supported Java version. I think we had a good >> > experience in gathering those details for Java 8 [1] (citing once more). >> > >> > +1 for this proposed change. >> > >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/arrow/issues/38051 >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 2:17 AM Jacob Wujciak <assignu...@apache.org> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Thanks Dane for starting the discussion! >> > > I would be +1 but I am neither a Java user nor familiar with the space >> > but >> > > seeing spark go 17+ is encouraging. >> > > >> > > Also worth mentioning is that people that can't drop 11 can always >> > continue >> > > using the versions that still support it. >> > > >> > > Best >> > > Jacob >> > > >> > > Am Mi., 31. Juli 2024 um 19:00 Uhr schrieb Dane Pitkin < >> > dpit...@apache.org >> > > >: >> > > >> > > > Hi all, >> > > > >> > > > I'd like to bring up for discussion dropping Java 11 and supporting >> > Java >> > > 17 >> > > > as the minimum version[1]. Earlier this year we agreed to drop Java >> 8 >> > and >> > > > support Java 11 as the min version[2]. That has now been completed >> and >> > > will >> > > > be released in Arrow v18 [3]. >> > > > >> > > > My suggestion would be to drop Java 11 in Arrow v19 (~Jan 2025). If >> we >> > > want >> > > > to wait for feedback from users after we release removal of Java 8, >> > then >> > > > perhaps Arrow v20 (~Apr 2025). >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Some reasonings: >> > > > - Java 11 is now in Extended Support for the remainder of its >> lifecycle >> > > > - Apache Spark only supports Java 17+ in v4.X >> > > > >> > > > Some drawbacks: >> > > > - Users will be required to add java command line arguments >> > > > (--add-opens)[4]. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Overall, this could be a big step towards modernizing the Arrow Java >> > > > project. >> > > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > Dane >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > [1]https://github.com/apache/arrow/issues/43307 >> > > > [2]https://lists.apache.org/thread/65vqpmrrtpshxo53572zcv91j1lb2y8g >> > > > [3]https://github.com/apache/arrow/issues/38051 >> > > > [4]https://arrow.apache.org/docs/java/install.html#id3 >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >
