I'm OK with "Acero".
In <CAJPUwMDHAv=qqkjjwhmifkddwlt4i59v9heqtxuhggdnseu...@mail.gmail.com>
"Re: [DISCUSS] "Naming" the Arrow C++ execution engine subproject?" on Thu,
19 May 2022 12:02:25 -0700,
Wes McKinney <wesmck...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Any more thoughts about names? How should we decide? The “Acero” name seems
> like it does not generate any obvious conflicts.
>
> On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 12:14 PM Andy Grove <andygrov...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I like Acero too. I like it because (as a non-Spanish speaker, at least) it
>> has no obvious meaning or connotation and once the community starts to use
>> this name for the project, that is the meaning that it will come to have.
>> Just like Gandiva (a word I was not familiar with when I learned about the
>> project). I do strongly prefer names like this over acronyms because it is
>> easier for the meaning to change over time as well.
>>
>> On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 12:50 PM Eduardo Ponce <edponc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > As a Spanish speaking person, I cannot think of a misleading or bad
>> > connotation for the word "acero". The word is generally used to refer to
>> > either steel materials (actual definition) or as a simile/metaphor
>> > comparing to something very strong. We can view this as a self-laud on
>> the
>> > robust and powerful functionality of the Arrow C++ compute engine.
>> > In terms of rhyming "acero" and Arrow, it depends on your accent. For
>> > example, I do not consider them to rhyme.
>> > Also, I do not think we need to treat it as an acronym, it can simply be
>> a
>> > name.
>> >
>> > ~Eduardo
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 2:29 PM Will Jones <will.jones...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > "Acero" has a nice ring to it. Almost as if you said "ACE Arrow" really
>> > > fast. And maybe the steel / iron meaning gives a sort of close-to-metal
>> > > vibes (similar to what Rust's name invokes), though I'm not a Spanish
>> > > speaker with a meaningful understanding of the words' connotations.
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 11:06 AM Wes McKinney <wesmck...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > A couple of other names derivative from the Ace- vibe:
>> > > >
>> > > > Acero ("steel" or sometimes "sword" in Spanish but apparently also
>> > > > "maple" in Italian). Also rhymes with Arrow but not sure if this is
>> > > > good or bad
>> > > > Acera ("pavement" or "sidewalk" in Spanish)
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 9:53 AM Will Jones <will.jones...@gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I think it is important to give the C++ execution engine a separate
>> > > name,
>> > > > > as has been said by Wes and Jacques. Two reason for that IMO:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 1. The more things we lend the Arrow brand outside of the format,
>> > the
>> > > > > harder it becomes for outside users to grasp what "Arrow" is.
>> > > > > 2. Giving the C++ engine a name under the Arrow umbrella gives it
>> > > undue
>> > > > > weight relative to other Arrow-based engines (such as DataFusion,
>> > > > Polars),
>> > > > > which may not generate good faith in the Arrow community.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If the "ACE" name has stuck, one option might be to simply adopt
>> the
>> > > word
>> > > > > "Ace" and call it the "Ace Query Engine". "Ace" both taking meaning
>> > > from
>> > > > > the modern "a person who excels at some activity" or the original
>> > > > "playing
>> > > > > card ... with a single pip" [1] (as an indication of
>> > > single-noded-ness).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Antoine did point out the ACE name is taken by a C++ library. The
>> > "Ace"
>> > > > > name is also used by the javascript library [2], but I think is a
>> > > general
>> > > > > enough work that no single library has much specific claim to it.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Some other names I thought of:
>> > > > > Arrow Recurve
>> > > > > Ace Archer
>> > > > > Arrow Ricochet
>> > > > >
>> > > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ace
>> > > > > [2] https://ace.c9.io/
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 12:44 AM Antoine Pitrou <
>> anto...@python.org>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Do we have to give it a particular name at all? Most of the C++
>> > > > > > subcomponents simply have a description ("the datasets layer",
>> > etc.).
>> > > > > > There are probably more important topics to spend our time on.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Regards
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Antoine.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Le 09/05/2022 à 21:44, Ian Cook a écrit :
>> > > > > > > Reflecting on this discussion six weeks after Wes’s initial
>> > > message:
>> > > > I
>> > > > > > > like the “ACE” name. I have been using it to refer to the Arrow
>> > C++
>> > > > > > > execution engine in verbal conversations with contributors, and
>> > it
>> > > > has
>> > > > > > > been a much-needed convenient monosyllabic shorthand for a part
>> > of
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > Arrow project that has not previously had a clear and memorable
>> > > name.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I agree with Sasha that it would be ideal to use some
>> > metaphorical
>> > > or
>> > > > > > > symbolic Archery-adjacent name prefaced with “Arrow,” but no
>> such
>> > > > name
>> > > > > > > has evolved organically to date. And it’s not for lack of
>> > trying—a
>> > > > few
>> > > > > > > months back I floated the idea to some people that we should
>> call
>> > > it
>> > > > > > > “Chiron” after the centaur from Greek mythology associated with
>> > > > > > > archery, but it never caught on :) Since there is no clear
>> > > consensus
>> > > > > > > about which such creative name we might invent now, I think
>> > > adopting
>> > > > a
>> > > > > > > creative name would require strong advocacy and
>> > consensus-building
>> > > > > > > work from someone central to the project, and this has not
>> > emerged.
>> > > > > > > Thus, a more literal descriptive name seems like our best
>> choice.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > If we do go with “ACE” as the acronym, then we will need to
>> > > establish
>> > > > > > > what that stands for. If we make the full name clear to the
>> > > community
>> > > > > > > and we use it alongside the acronym on the website, that should
>> > > help
>> > > > > > > with problems of Googlability of the acronym.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > That raises the question of what the “C” stands for. I agree
>> with
>> > > > > > > Jacques that it is less than ideal to have the “C” stand for
>> > > > “Compute”
>> > > > > > > because it could create a misleading and undesirable
>> connotation
>> > of
>> > > > > > > primacy. I also agree with Andy that it is less than ideal for
>> > the
>> > > > “C”
>> > > > > > > to stand for “C++” because it is intended to be used from other
>> > > > > > > languages. I am unsure how we should weigh these two concerns.
>> > More
>> > > > > > > input on this question would be appreciated.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Ian
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 5:31 PM Jacques Nadeau <
>> > jacq...@apache.org
>> > > >
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> I'm -0.9 on Arrow Compute engine. It makes it sound like it is
>> > THE
>> > > > > > >> canonical Arrow one, second classing Datafusion and Gandiva.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> No strong feelings on other names. Naming in general is an
>> > > extremely
>> > > > > > >> subjective process...
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022, 2:33 PM Weston Pace <
>> > weston.p...@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>> I'm +1 for "arrow compute engine". In the docs we currently
>> > > refer
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > >>> it as the "streaming execution engine". I do like the word
>> > > > > > >>> "streaming" as it is the difference between the engine and
>> the
>> > > > general
>> > > > > > >>> "compute" module but the word is also overloaded and we can
>> > > easily
>> > > > > > >>> include the word "streaming" in the first sentence of
>> whatever
>> > > > > > >>> description we have for the engine.
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >>>> I'd personally like to see such a word for the query engine
>> > > > (otherwise
>> > > > > > >>> we'd
>> > > > > > >>>> have to call Arrow Flight "Arrow Wire Protocol" 😅). Even
>> > > > something
>> > > > > > like
>> > > > > > >>>> "Arrow Archer" or "Arrow Bow" would be sufficient for me.
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >>> I do like the idea of calling it just "bow" and I'm not
>> against
>> > > > either
>> > > > > > >>> of these names (+0). I think I still lean towards something
>> > more
>> > > > > > >>> plain and descriptive (arrow wire protocol has a nice ring to
>> > > > it...)
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 9:10 AM Sasha Krassovsky
>> > > > > > >>> <krassovskysa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>> In my view, the Arrow project has the core format
>> > specification
>> > > > > > (called
>> > > > > > >>>> Arrow), and then ancillary libraries for actually *doing*
>> > stuff
>> > > > with
>> > > > > > >>> Arrow
>> > > > > > >>>> data, such as Arrow Flight and the query engine (within the
>> > > > `arrow`
>> > > > > > >>>> subdirectory in particular). I think these ancillary
>> libraries
>> > > > should
>> > > > > > all
>> > > > > > >>>> follow a similar naming convention. Seems like the precedent
>> > set
>> > > > by
>> > > > > > Arrow
>> > > > > > >>>> Flight is "Arrow <mildly archery-related, descriptive
>> word>",
>> > so
>> > > > I'd
>> > > > > > >>>> personally like to see such a word for the query engine
>> > > (otherwise
>> > > > > > we'd
>> > > > > > >>>> have to call Arrow Flight "Arrow Wire Protocol" 😅). Even
>> > > > something
>> > > > > > like
>> > > > > > >>>> "Arrow Archer" or "Arrow Bow" would be sufficient for me.
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>> Sasha Krassovsky
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 9:25 AM Gavin Ray <
>> > > ray.gavi...@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>> "Arrow Compute Engine" sounds quite nice to me, tbh
>> > > > > > >>>>> Agreeing with the points made above about ACE being
>> difficult
>> > > to
>> > > > > > >>> google,
>> > > > > > >>>>> and AQE being a loaded term in query engines already.
>> > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 10:07 AM Andy Grove <
>> > > > andygrov...@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > >>> wrote:
>> > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> Just my 2 cents on this. If you were to call it ACE, I
>> would
>> > > > make
>> > > > > > >>> the C
>> > > > > > >>>>>> stand for "Compute" rather than C++ since it is intended
>> to
>> > be
>> > > > used
>> > > > > > >>> from
>> > > > > > >>>>>> other languages, such as Python.
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> The problem with ACE is that is a common word and it will
>> > make
>> > > > it
>> > > > > > >>> hard to
>> > > > > > >>>>>> Google for documentation. Even the combination of Arrow
>> and
>> > > ACE
>> > > > > > >>> already
>> > > > > > >>>>> has
>> > > > > > >>>>>> plenty of results.
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> Also, I saw in the linked doc a reference to AQE (for
>> Arrow
>> > > > Query
>> > > > > > >>>>> Engine).
>> > > > > > >>>>>> I would not recommend using this since many people know
>> AQE
>> > as
>> > > > > > >>> Adaptive
>> > > > > > >>>>>> Query Execution (especially Spark users).
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> "Arrow Compute Engine" in full doesn't sound bad perhaps?
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> With DataFusion, I made a list of words related to the
>> > project
>> > > > > > (data,
>> > > > > > >>>>>> query, compute, engine, etc) and then a list of completely
>> > > > unrelated
>> > > > > > >>>>> words
>> > > > > > >>>>>> and then looked at the combinations to see what sounded
>> good
>> > > to
>> > > > me.
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> Andy.
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 4:31 PM Antoine Pitrou <
>> > > > anto...@python.org>
>> > > > > > >>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>> ACE is already the name of a well-known C++ library,
>> though
>> > > > I'm not
>> > > > > > >>>>> sure
>> > > > > > >>>>>>> how widely used it is nowadays :
>> > > > > > >>>>>>> http://www.dre.vanderbilt.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>> I would name it "execution engine" or "Arrow C++
>> execution
>> > > > engine"
>> > > > > > >>> in
>> > > > > > >>>>>> full.
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Regards
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Antoine.
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Le 29/03/2022 à 00:15, Wes McKinney a écrit :
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> hi all,
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> There has been a steady stream of work over the last
>> year
>> > > and
>> > > > a
>> > > > > > >>> half
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> or so to create a set of query engine building blocks in
>> > C++
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> evaluate queries against Arrow Datasets and input
>> streams,
>> > > > which
>> > > > > > >>> can
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> be of use to applications that are already building on
>> top
>> > > of
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Arrow C++ project. This effort has a smaller surface
>> area
>> > > than
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> DataFusion since SQL parsing and query optimization are
>> > > being
>> > > > > > >>> left to
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> other tools.
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I thought it would be useful to have a name for this
>> > > > subproject
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> similar to how we have Gandiva, Plasma, DataFusion, and
>> > > other
>> > > > > > >>> named
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Apache Arrow subprojects. We had discussed creating a
>> > > project
>> > > > > > >>> like
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> this a few years ago [1], but since there are now
>> multiple
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Arrow-native or Arrow-compatible query engines in the
>> > wild,
>> > > it
>> > > > > > >>> would
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> be helpful to disambiguate.
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> One simple name is ACE — Arrow C++ Engine. I'm not very
>> > good
>> > > > at
>> > > > > > >>>>> naming
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> things, so if there are other suggestions from the
>> > > community I
>> > > > > > >>> would
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> love to hear them!
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Thanks,
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Wes
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> [1]:
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/10RoUZmiMQRi_J1FcPeVAUAMJ6d_ZuiEbaM2Y33sNPu4/edit#heading=h.2k6k5a4y9b8y
>> > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
