On Jan 10, 2008 4:12 PM, Matt Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Xavier: > I think it would be good to have a system that > pretty much bundles alternatives for everything Maven > provides, but without all the black magic that makes > Maven difficult to customize. Basically antlibs for > all parts of the Maven lifecycle, including, > especially, Ivy. :)
That's exactly what I'm thinking about :-) > In fact, I already came up with > my own name for this concept some time back: > "Shaven". ;) Funny :-) Xavier > > > -Matt > > --- Xavier Hanin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > It's been a long time since I'm thinking about this, > > and thought it might be > > interesting to share with you and see where the idea > > can go. > > > > I see many developers adopt Maven because they want > > a build system able to > > provide common features with no effort. Most of them > > don't want to spend > > much time writing an Ant script, or have seen or > > heard that maintaining Ant > > build scripts is troublesome. So they choose to use > > Maven only because it's > > easy to use for common use cases: install, write a > > simple pom of a few lines > > or generate it using an archetype, and you're ready > > to compile, test and > > package your new project following the Maven > > standard structure. They also > > get dependency management for free, and with only a > > few more effort they > > have multi module builds, and some nice features > > like code analysis, > > coverage, and a set of report gathered in a web > > site. That's really nice and > > that's what I like about Maven. > > > > But Maven suffers from a lack of flexibility and > > robustness IMHO. And later > > the same people who first adopted Maven because of > > its perceived ease of use > > become frustrated when they need to tweek the system > > to their own needs or > > don't understand how the release plugin work. Then > > some of them go back to > > Ant, first having to go through a sometimes painful > > road to describe their > > whole build system in xml, especially if they aren't > > Ant experts. Others try > > to use new build tools like raven, buildr or others. > > > > I really like Ant, and think it is a very good basis > > for robust and flexible > > build systems. People with enough knowledge of Ant > > can write very good build > > systems, testable, maintainable and adaptable. But > > you need to get your > > hands dirty, and you need to get a good knowledge of > > some of the mechanisms > > which can make an Ant based build system manageable: > > import, scripts and > > scriptdef, macrodef, presetdef, and so on. > > > > Hence I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to > > package a set of Ant > > build files, providing all the basic features of a > > build system for java > > projects: dependency management, compilation, > > testing and packaging, plus > > maybe some more advanced features like code coverage > > and code auditing. > > Multi module build support would be nice to have > > too. Then someone needing > > only those features could simply have a build file > > per project mostly > > consisting of a single import of the common build > > file provided. Some > > needing more could provide plugins to the build > > system itself. Some needing > > to tweak the system could simply override some > > target definitions or > > properties. Others with very specific needs could > > simply use the build > > scripts as examples or basis. > > > > I guess most people on this list know the benefit of > > having such a build > > system and how well it scales, and most of us > > already have developed such a > > set of build files. But providing the basis of such > > a good build system well > > packaged and documented could improve the Ant > > community IMO. With some > > efforts from our community we could end up with > > something interesting pretty > > easily. Most of us don't have much time, but we > > probably already have a good > > basis from the build files we work with around, and > > if this can be done in a > > community effort it could remain affordable in terms > > of time required. > > > > So, what do you think? Do you think this would be > > useful? Would you be > > interested in contributing? Do you think a new Ant > > sub project would be a > > good fit? > > > > Xavier > > -- > > Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant > > http://xhab.blogspot.com/ > > http://ant.apache.org/ivy/ > > http://www.xoocode.org/ > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant http://xhab.blogspot.com/ http://ant.apache.org/ivy/ http://www.xoocode.org/
