You have my axe :) On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 5:00 PM Howard Yoo <howard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sure, I could try! But I definitely need Jarek's help (and the others) on > it - so would like to work with Jarek for him to review any changes that I > make (and make sure the wordings, definitions, are correct to the intended > design). > > - Howard > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 9:38 AM Ash Berlin-Taylor <a...@apache.org> wrote: > >> Agreed! >> >> Howard: do you fancy trying to create a PR to capture this discusion/the >> reasoning in our docs? >> >> It probably belongs on one of these three pages >> >> >> https://github.com/apache/airflow/blob/main/docs/apache-airflow/concepts/scheduler.rst >> >> https://github.com/apache/airflow/blob/main/docs/apache-airflow/concepts/dags.rst >> >> https://github.com/apache/airflow/blob/main/docs/apache-airflow/concepts/timetable.rst >> >> Cheers, >> >> Ash >> >> On Mon, Feb 7 2022 at 09:13:28 +0100, Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> >> wrote: >> >> Yeah. That discussion actually made me think that probably we need to >> explain it better :) >> >> On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 11:10 PM Howard Yoo <howard...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> As we discuss this topic, the more and more I get to understand the >>> reasons behind all those philosophies behind, so I appreciate the knowledge >>> that I gained. >>> >>> As long as those terms and principles are well described and explained >>> without confusion, I believe we are moving to the right direction and >>> that’s what matters. >>> >>> - Howard >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 6, 2022, at 3:24 PM, Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> IMHO It does not really matter if they are the same or not and which one >>> is the same. This is actually the beauty of the "abstract" and "vague" >>> logical_date. Those are different "concepts" that you use in different >>> cases. >>> >>> The logical date **might** be the same as one of the interval_dates. >>> It's just an "abstract" representation of the particular "run_id" - and you >>> should not care, because "logical_date" makes sense for some cases, but >>> "data_interval_start/end" for other cases. >>> >>> * If your task is about "data_interval" - by all means use the >>> data_interval_start and end. >>> * if your task is not about "interval" - use the "logical_date". >>> >>> That is how I see it at least. By using a different approach when you >>> use different cases the users might free their "mental-mapping" - they do >>> not have to map the "logical_date" to either "start" or "end". It does not >>> matter. but if they process a data interval, they have very clear >>> boundaries of ("start" <-> "end") range that they can use without even >>> thinking on. how "logical_date" maps to it. >>> >>> For me - those are completely different cases and they are orthogonal to >>> each other (even if some of those values are the same). >>> >>> J. >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 7:00 PM Howard Yoo <howard...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I see, thank you for the info. >>>> I didn’t know about the existence of the data_interval_start and end >>>> dates. I briefly looked at those definitions, and was wondering… wouldn’t >>>> they be equal to the logical dates? I do see those variables mentioned in >>>> https://airflow.apache.org/docs/apache-airflow/stable/templates-ref.html, >>>> and also see the ds and ts meaning logical dates. In practice, are those >>>> dates and timestamps supposed to be the same? >>>> >>>> Wonder also, if the ‘data_’ prefix would be necessary if airfow would >>>> be used to orchestrate far more things in the future (perhaps this may be >>>> another thread), but in general, we should have a continuous discussions to >>>> further clearly define all those dates for the improved usage of airflow. >>>> >>>> Howard >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 6, 2022, at 11:15 AM, Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> We already have `data_interval_start` and `data_interval_end' as >>>> fields, and we need something else that can have more "abstract" meaning to >>>> apply to the whole run as "single thing". Using interval_date would be a >>>> bit ambiguous. >>>> >>>> "Did you mean start or end actually when you mentioned interval date?" >>>> - is the question that I anticipate happening a lot if we mix those. >>>> >>>> J. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 6:04 PM Howard Yoo <howard...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Now I can understand why the data_date may not be a perfect fit to >>>>> describe the term. >>>>> >>>>> This is not to be against the logical_date, but what about >>>>> ‘interval_date?’ We have the schedule interval, which defines the duration >>>>> of the interval (e.g. 1day), so wouldn’t interval start and end date be a >>>>> better representation of it rather than the logical date? >>>>> >>>>> Just want to hear whether that has been brought up already or not. >>>>> >>>>> Howard >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 6, 2022, at 10:25 AM, Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wholeheartedly agree with TP on that one. I think while some time >>>>> ago "data date" could make sense, Airflow's future is much more than just >>>>> processing data intervals. >>>>> This is the primary use case and this is where Airflow shines od >>>>> course, but one of the good examples of how Airflow is used out there, and >>>>> while we are not really encouraging it, there are not only legitimate, but >>>>> also something that I hope Airflow will treat as first-time citizens soon >>>>> (and it kind of already is with custom timetables). >>>>> >>>>> Just an example here - for me one of the most eye-opening talks in >>>>> last year's Airflow Summit >>>>> https://airflowsummit.org/sessions/2021/provision-as-a-service/ >>>>> In this talk Cloudflare engineers explain how they manage the >>>>> CloudFlare infrastructure using Airflow. >>>>> >>>>> The "Data date" has no meaning in this case. But the "logical Date" >>>>> (which is the vaguest-possible one as TP explained) continues to have one. >>>>> This is the "logical date of the infrastructure provisioning". Thanks >>>>> to Airflow (as I understand it) Cloudflare is able to re-provision their >>>>> services to "yesterday's logical date infrastructure" today - for >>>>> example. >>>>> >>>>> That would not fly with "data date". >>>>> >>>>> J, >>>>> >>>>>
