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Very
well said, Matt.
I
mentioned in my earlier post about this as well. The product has not
advanced to counter weight the costs; nor is there a truly working product
"release" for 100% of the users. Time spent tweaking and paying for 3rd
party plug-ins is expensive.
For
us, we've been considering going back to open source. We are already
spending time on tweaking Declude and paying for it; might as well spend that
time tweaking a free product.
Declude is a maintenance nightmare when you have to train someone to
handle what is already in place. Their documentation is not update with
their product. It's a lot of time on the end user end.
-Erik
Barry,
Before
you publish your future strategy, you should take a lot more time to consider
the willingness of your customers to come along. I have never
heard of a similar piece of software that expires in this way, and effectively
forces a customer to renew their license. The only things that are
remotely close are Microsoft products which are sold a different way for
volume licensing, but they offer these subscriptions at a price that is just a
fraction of the full product price, they are generally considered to be
discounted by the companies purchasing them, and the choice is optional to
choose the subscription or the standard purchase. That is clearly not
the case here.
Declude is not a service, it's a piece of software, and
I expect to pay for software the way that software is paid for. I will
never pay an annual license to use such a piece of software.
Never. Especially when that piece of software requires me to pay for
multiple other products in order to have acceptable protection, and work many
long hours in developing plug-ins to enhance functionality that doesn't exist
in the product itself. The strength of Declude is it's flexibility as a
framework, but not as a solution in itself. There is a major disconnect
between your perception of the market, and what I an others on this end
see.
While this model might seem appealing to you, it is grossly
uncompetitive, and it comes at an incredibly inopportune time. We as a
community have been mostly understanding of the disruption associated with the
change of ownership, but up to this point there has been only small
advancements in the product that benefit us. With the exception of one
piece of added functionality, I could still be using the same release that I
was using two years ago when you took over the company. Whether or not
it is apparent to you, it is very apparent to the majority of your customers
that I communicate with that the product is lagging, and not it is being
priced uncompetitively on top of that. People who are one day faced with
the prospect of renewing a service agreement and feeling angry over not having
used a single release in the previous year are now being faced with a choice
between a dead-end product (non-annually licensed software), and upgrading to
an annual license at a greatly increased price.
The issues with
development and price on their own aren't my only concerns. Since I see
this as grossly uncompetitive, I also worry about whether or not Declude can
be a going concern under these conditions, and a large part of my own business
has been built on top of the functionality that the product offers. I
don't perceive the possibility of success in this model, and I likewise don't
believe that I can rely on Declude going forward as long as this is the model
that you choose. As a business person, I must protect my own interests
and find a suitable solution for my needs.
It's not yet too late to
rethink your licensing and other plans going forward, but I fear that you
won't get very far before the damage can't be
undone.
Matt
Barry Simpson wrote:
Each customer has a price on their host record which reflects their
individual special price. This is confidential for each customer and I will
not be posting details on a public forum.
We are currently developing some documentation that should be published next
week outlining changes and future strategy. As soon as this is available we
will inform our customers.
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darin Cox
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
I misspoke... switch SA for upgrade. Also, please answer the implicit
questions at the end of the email as well.
Thanks,
Darin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Darin,
The Service Agreement prices have not changed:
JunkMail - $132.00 per year
EVA - $132.00 per year
HiJack - $45.00 per year
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darin Cox
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Hi David,
What I was trying to get was an actual price matrix. For example,
1. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA
Pro?
2. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA
Standard?
3. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro and EVA
Lite?
4. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and
EVA Pro?
5. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and
EVA Standard?
6. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard and
EVA Lite?
7. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA
Pro?
8. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA
Standard?
9. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite and EVA
Lite?
10. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Pro only?
11. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Standard
only?
12. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has JM Lite only?
13. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Pro only?
14. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Standard
only?
15. What is the price of an SA when the existing customer has EVA Lite only?
This could be easily displayed as a 4x4 price matrix. Posting it here, or
perhaps posting a link to where it's posted on your website, will save you a
lot of phone calls and time.
I think a lot of the confusion stems from calling the upcoming release
version 4. If the functionality will always remain the same between 3 and
4, then calling it a bundled "service" that is licensed differently than the
separately "purchased" products would be much more clear than calling it a
separate version. If the functionality is going to change between 3 and 4,
then we need to know when and what, and how it affects previous customers.
I know you've stated there is no "major" difference now, but everyone is
concerned not just about now, but about the future functionality, costs, and
direction of the product.
Darin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Darin,
If you have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack you can choose if you want to run
version 3 or version 4 in either case the SA applies as in point 2.
2. Existing Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 CAN continue using the Service
Agreement model. This mean you purchase a Annual Service agreement to ensure
support and having access to new releases of Declude for that year. If your
Service Agreement lapses you are still able to run Declude you will just not
have access to support or new releases.
If you do NOT have JM Pro & EVA PRO & Hijack and choose not to upgrade ...
then you remain with version 3 as version 4 is licensed for JM Pro & EVA PRO
& Hijack as I have explained in point 5.
5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference in
functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO,
Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual
products.
If you need further clarification I would suggest calling us and we will be
happy to answer all your questions.
PS. You will have to wait till Monday 'cuase it's 11:30 on a Saturday
evening and I am not taking calls at home :)
David B
www.declude.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darin Cox
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
Ok, so what are the various prices? You're going to get asked this a lot.
Why not post the answer on this forum and save everyone a lot of time?
Also, does upgrade mean a previous customer is on SAs, but using v4? Or
does that customer stay on v3?
Darin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
The price as based on a formula which is determined by what you currently
have licensed and is therefore is not the same for everyone. ie. If you just
have a license for JM lite you would pay more for an upgrade than someone
who has JM PRO and EVA std.
An upgrade means:
Customers of Declude prior 8 Feb 06 can continue with Service Agreements see
point 4.
David B
www.declude.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darin Cox
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
HI David,
Re: 6. What is the price for the upgrade? And does the upgrade mean we are
on an annual subscription, or continue with service agreements?
Darin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:47 AM
Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 3.0 / 4.0
1. The definition of an Annual Subscription is a license to run Declude for
a period of a year at which time the Annual Subscription has to be renewed
to continue running Declude. Annual Subscription does NOT apply to customers
of Declude prior 8 Feb 06.
2. Existing Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 CAN continue using the Service
Agreement model. This mean you purchase a Annual Service agreement to ensure
support and having access to new releases of Declude for that year. If your
Service Agreement lapses you are still able to run Declude you will just not
have access to support or new releases.
3. Annual Subscription is NOT the same Annual Service Agreement.
4. For Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 you CAN continue to use Declude as you
always have with the ability to purche an Annual Service Agreement.
5. With regards to Version 3.0 and 4.0 there is NO major difference in
functionality except that 4.0 runs as a single product with Declude EVA PRO,
Junkmail PRO and Hijack. Where as Version 3.0 still supports 3 individual
products.
6. Customers prior to 8 Feb 06 are NOT forced into upgrading to version 4.0
but have an option to do so at greatly reduced price.
7. I am pulling together some additional release notes on a comparison
between version version 3.0 and 4.0 which I hope to have available next
week.
David B
www.declude.com
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robert E. Spivack
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 2:06 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] declude 4 changes ... worried...
How many user mailboxes do you have? The pricing of some outsourced
solutions which have a per mailbox fee might actually be lower now that
Declude is also an annual required payment.
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darin Cox
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 8:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] declude 4 changes ... worried...
Yep. at that price it's time to move to something else or build our own
system.
Declude, come back with something reasonable or you'll lose customers like
IMail did.
Darin.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Fisher <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] declude 4 changes ... worried...
So I thought I'd go web browsing on the Declude site and see what is up with
Declude 4.
I'm a Virus Pro and Junkmail Pro licensee on Imail.
Going forward Declude 4 is the entire suite (Virus Pro, Junkmail Pro and
Hijaak).
Kevin's post mentions that Declude 3 will be supported. Although long term
how long will they support two different code sets?
I'd say my long-term gut feeling isn't good.
Next I look through the purchase page. Declude 4 for Imail is now only
available for a $1450 Annual Subscription. Ouch.
The last time I paid maintenance for Declude it was $265. That's a bump.
(Essentially having only one domain here), That is mighty pricey especially
compared to the Declude for Smartmail 1 domain price of $199.
Don't get me wrong, I really like the Declude prodcut. It's so flexible that
you can do many different things...
I just can't see how smaller entities like me are going to positively
affected by these changes.
-----------------------------------------------------
Scott Fisher
Director of IT
Farm Progress Companies
191 S Gary Ave
Carol Stream, IL 60188
630-462-2323
This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Although Farm
Progress Companies has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are
present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss
or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.
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