2014-03-14 9:59 GMT+01:00 Jo Shields <direct...@apebox.org>: > *TRIGGER WARNING* in case it wasn't painfully obvious for this thread by > now.
Thanks for the warning. Just for the record, I can confirm that there has been people already triggered by all this situation. We can't forget that, as the "global prevalence of child sexual abuse has been estimated at 19.7% for females and 7.9% for males" [1], in a mailing list of say 100 people, there are gonna be about 12 people who have gone through it, and the psychological consequences it has, even years later, makes that the triggering that these situations cause can be very hurtful. I'm not saying that there should be censorship regarding what and how we can discuss things just because emotions play a cig part of it, but I ask everyone involved to take it into account that we're hurting actual people that are part of the project just by having this debate. I'm not commenting your post in general, just to thank you for your thoroughful analysis, not only of the game itself but also of its circumstances and the references it includes. I'm not familiar with 4chan nor Krautchan nor Bernds, so your mail is very enlightening and adds more information that I was unaware of. I haven't played the game myself, but I know that doing an analysis of this kind needs a lot of effort and thick skin, and I really appreciate it. I'm sure that the FTP Team will too. Thanks. Before all this discussion gets out of hand, I'll try to summarize my understanding of the situation as it is now: 1) It has been agreed by everyone that the game is, at least, illegal in most of our countries, and it shouldn't be packaged in Debian. As far as I know, no one is arguing that, or questioning that. Not even by who initially proposed it. 2) There is currently a somehow abstract debate about whether something can/should be saved of the game, alluding the artistic quality of the non-sexual components of the game. I can't comment on this, I haven't seen them far away from those in the web page. I don't know if something should or could be saved or not. I don't know if even the fact of saving something and knowing where it comes from can be hurting to both the project or the people in Debian in itself. 3) Up to now, there hasn't been an actual proposal of package to even discuss, so the whole debate is abstract and I don't think anyone can say anything concrete about something that is not even tangible. I repeat: No one has started packagin anything, as far as I know, no one has tried to upload anything, no one has made anything apart of talking. At least that is my current understanding of the situation. 4) For what I know, the game itself, up to the current moment, is not even DFSG-free. There is the promise of opening up the source code, but that hasn't even happened yet. 5) The FTP Masters are making an effort to publicly clarify the situation and calm all the people that is upset about this, even though -I repeat- there is no actual proposal of any package at the moment, and it has already been agreed that the game itself, as it is, cannot be included in Debian.The FTP Masters need time to talk it through and decide if they want to preventively establish some limits or not, and there is really no urgency, because there is not an actual proposal of any kind to accept or reject. Lets not put more pressure on them than needed. 6) What the FTP Masters are debating, as far as I know, is noth whether they will allow these kind of games (for some definition of "these kind" that ranges between everything adult-only to something more restricted). Up to now, as far as I know, there has been no explicit limist placed on what should be allowed in Debian (apart from being DFSG free). What I understand of what we're expecting from FTP Masters is not to allow anything that was forbidden, but to make a decision about whether some limits of some kind should be added explicitly beforehand, to avoid the problems caused by not having an explicit policy about this. 7) I know that there has always been some concern about establishing explicit moral limits to what gets into debian for fear that somehow someone might be abusing these rules to censor things that were not intended to be excluded from the beginning. 8) We trust the FTP Masters. Up to now, they have proven that they are sensible people who work hard to make Debian the best they can, as we all do. Thanks, guys! 9) For everyone who has an eye on this thread: Debian itself -the community, the project- has not done anything that can supportive of these kind of games (for some definition of "these kind"). The discussion and arguments on both sides have been made by individual people (DDs, Contributors or not) in the exercise of their own individual freedom of expression, and no one has talked yet in behalf of the whole project. 10) Fortunately, the debate has been polite and civil up to now (meaning no insults, personal attacks and the such), and confined to the Debian project itself. We really don't want to transform this into a fight of external groups using Debian as a battle field for their own political battled. Of course, all these is just my own personal opinion. Greetings, Miry [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? 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