On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:13:57 +0100 Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > but for me it had more to do with not feeling "polite" enough and > > > being accused of being too hostile/aggressive. > > > > Stronger emphasis on communication via subtext and innuendo, a focus > > on superficial harmony instead of honesty and discussion (this may > > be what you experienced), commonly a reluctance to try activities > > seen as "guys' stuff", e.g. be "too geeky", or at least to get "too > > involved" in them despite what may be a strong interest. Those are > > the ones I can think of right now. > > All the above can certainly be defined as social behaviour that are > traditionnally known as "female", sure. > > I'm personnally still in the mood that this is however what women > bring in a male-dominated environment (just like is mine, in my > professionnal activities). So, even though relying only on a social > behaviour putting emphasis on communication and (supposedly) > superficial harmony is not enough to have a good environment, they are > part of it. > > In deep technical environments (such as Debian....and my own > prof. environment), being able to listen to others, understand them > and apply the traditional and very well known concepts of good social > interaction (reformulation, putting self in the skin of others, etc.) > is what makes good work relations. > > Technical excellence without social skills is (exxagerating just a > little) completely useless. > > And, this may sound a little bit traditionally minded, but I > personnally think, from my own experience, that this is what women > are, statistically speaking, more able to bring than men. Don't ask me > why....maybe some social formatting or whatever. This is also what > could be defined as "man-ish" or "woman-ish" behaviour....feel free to > call me a jerk if disagreeing. > As long as you _don't require_ a woman to have those good qualities... > > That doesn't mean I like most male-dominated environments either, > > since they certainly have their share of problems, but they tend to > > at least be more direct and thus easier to parse, and I'm not > > expected to like them, so there was no exception to mention. > > Being more direct may be a quality but is also often a defect > (default?) when used too strongly....maybe just look some Debian (or > non Debian) mailing lists. > > As an example, let's imagine two people disagreeing on a given topic, > say the GFDL being DFSG-compliant or not... > > If the one being "not OK with GFDL" just says the other one: "you are > wrong. The GFDL is *this* and *that*"...this is, IMHO, > miscommunication. > > This is pushing your own opinion without any effort to listen to the > other's opinion. > > Another way, more social-friendly, to say the exact same thing would > be: "I understand you think "foo" (pro DFSG compliance argument) which > makes you conclude that GFDL is DFSG-compliant. My personal > interpreation of this is that "foo" is debatable because of "bar" (con > DFSG compliance argument)". > > This is showing that you have listened to the others opinion, are able > to rephrase it...and explain why you have a different opinion. > > The first behaviour is, imho, more common in technical > environments. The last one is probably more common in human relations > and "social" environments. > > > Being able to use the socially acceptable behaviour in a technical > environment is a quality that is very widely searched for. In short, > finding technically excellent people is not that difficult. Finding > technically excellent people that can socially behave properly is way > more difficult and, again, from my own experience, the percentage of > women in the second category is higher..:-) > > I completely assume and have already explained that this is what I > think more women can bring to Debian. Not only, for sure...and there > is still room for people (women or men) who don't have these qualities > or don't care about them. > > > For one thing, it's focused on getting things done, whether they're > > technical or cultural. It also has no social tax, as far as I can > > tell. One can choose to be actively social, but there are no > > unsolicited attempts to 'include' or 'engage' people, that I've > > seen. > > In this, DW is typically Debian-ish, which is actually what made its > success, imho, and the strong recognition of the project among > existing Debian people. > > This is certainly what we deeply owe to the initiators of the > project....and actually perfectly fits my "social skills required" > paragraphs above..:) > > > Also, Debian in general is a truly international community, so the > > (civilised) parts of it seems not to make as many assumptions about > > shared culture as a smaller or less diverse one would. > > > This is certainly something that I've learned from i18n activities as > well and, indeed, this is something that DW and i18n deeply share. > > > .... Ouch, I spent half of my morning mail-reading slot writing all > this....hope that someone will go down to the end...:) > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Odile Bénassy http://obenassy.free.fr
