On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 01:13:33PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: >Simon Josefsson <si...@josefsson.org> writes: > >> Wonderful -- it is good that I am able to finally express your view in a >> way that you actually agree with. > >Yes, thank you very much for your thoughtful and productive engagement in >this thread! It's really satisfying to be able to talk about things that >provoke strong feelings and be able to have a productive conversation that >helps both people understand each other.
I'd like to express my thanks here to *both* of you! It's been great to have a healthy debate, discussing principles and trying to understand each other. In the modern era of partisanry, this is depresssingly rare and even heart-warming! >> I agree purity leads to cults and problems. My view of this situation >> is that the Debian project is climbing up the stairs of the pragmatists' >> ivory tower to the point where it suffers from the ills of purism: by >> forbidding the free installer, the pragmatist becomes the mirror image >> of a purist that wants to forbid everything that doesn't comply with its >> own ideal. > >> In my mind, the pragmatic approch is to publish both the free and >> non-free installer. > >So, spoiler, while I'm going to vote E first (I have a policy of only >proposing ballot options I would vote first), my guess is that B is going >to win for precisely the reasons you describe. I will certainly vote B >above NOTA. (For full disclosure, my vote is likely E>B>C>A>NOTA>D.) ACK. B may well win, and I'd be happy to accept that - it gives some clear direction! As I've expressed previously, my own personal *preference* is for Option A. but I expected there to be opposition there and I totally understand it. FTAOD, I'm expecting to be happy with whatever the project decides here. >In other words, I think we have a fair bit of common ground. My concern >about having both installers is pragmatic; I don't think it's necessary >and I think it's confusing to users (not to mention additional work that >divides our efforts). But it's certainly not a violation of Debian's >principles. My general policy for votes is that I'll vote my own >principles and let everyone else vote theirs and rely on the voting system >to reach compromises, but the compromise in B (and for that matter C) are >both ones I'm happy with. > >I don't think having only one installer carries the message that you're >seeing in it. I think it's just a more elegant and straightforward way of >providing the user with a choice about whether to use non-free software >and respecting that choice. But I completely understand how you arrived >at the conclusion that you did and I respect your reasoning. In some ways >it's probably more sound than mine. Right! -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. st...@einval.com Getting a SCSI chain working is perfectly simple if you remember that there must be exactly three terminations: one on one end of the cable, one on the far end, and the goat, terminated over the SCSI chain with a silver-handled knife whilst burning *black* candles. --- Anthony DeBoer
