Hi Anarcat, Quoting Antoine Beaupré (2021-03-25 20:11:45) > Hey what's up doc, > > On 2021-03-25 00:41:41, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > Quoting M dB (2021-03-24 23:55:23) > >> A few thoughts: > >> > >> - I don't like the term "cancel" because I think it doesn't mean > >> much anymore and is too loaded. > > > > Means too little and too much at the same time?!? > > > > https://www.dictionary.com/e/pop-culture/cancel-culture/ describes > > it as a form of boycott, calling out, and group shaming. > > > > Wikipedia seems to share that view - what am I missing? Am I in some > > bubble confirming my views, and other bubbles tell radically > > different storis about the meaning of the term? > > > > > >> Are we discussing a handful of people leaving volunteer positions? > >> Yes. Are we discussing ruining their lives? No. > > > > Are we disccussing public boycott and shaming? Yes. > > > > Do public boycott and shaming ruin lives? Hopefully not, but I > > wonder how you can so confidently dismiss both the term as being > > meaningless and the action as being harmless. Shame on you for not > > taking responsibility for your action. > > Did you just "shame" someone because they supposedly call on "shaming" > someone else? Isn't that a contradiction?
No. I shame someone for reframing an act of group shaming as harmless. > > I get a strong impression that this RMS felow is far from a saint, > > and encourage that he be properly tried for his alleged wrongdoings. > > So basically, what you are proposing is that, instead of suggesting > RMS simply be expelled from a non-profit, all the witnesses and > victims of his crimes should collectively organise for him to be > criminally prosecuted in a court of law in the United States? > > How would that not be public shaming? Regardless of the shame involved in prosecution in a US court system, that does not legimitize group shaming. I find it reasonable for Debian to distance itself from questionable activities in related organisations, but not to get involved in group shaming. I find it distasteful for Debian to *judge* activities in related organisations. Stating that "[RMS] has shown himself to be misogynist, ableist, and transphobic" is treating allegations (arguably very strong allegations but still not proven in a court of law) as it it was facts. > Anyways, I think the point here is to get seconders, maybe we should > keep those arguments to the vote and move on. I hope I won't regret > outlining the contradictions here. I think the point here is to discuss what should be on the ballot. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
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