On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 03:29:58AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Sven Luther wrote: > >Well, i guess people get rather irritated if sending email to ftp-master > >email > >address for things that are mostly reasonable could as well go to > >/dev/null, > > Sure, of course they are, and so they should be. I can fairly readily > find 52k more reasons for people to be irritated with Debian too, the > most recent numbered 298050. I'm pretty sure I could come up with some > more beyond that too. > > >so i guess it is mostly a communication problem. > > But that's not really true either, in my opinion. The issue isn't > whether you get a mail back saying "Thankyou for your letter, you have > been placed in a priority queue, you are currently at position #548. > Please hold. Tralalalalalala." -- it's whether things get done: whether > NEW gets processed, removals get done, sections get updated, support for > new architectures, features, packages, whatever get implemented.
Yeah, but it would be nice to get at least a little notice when you send a nice email to ftp-masters asking to please get a NEW processing for a given package since it is *NEEDED* for the d-i rc3 deadline which is approaching fast. Complete silence is in my opinion not in order on this. And there is clearly a subgroup of people who know how to approach the ftp-masters through irc to accelerate the processing. But i don't think this should be the canonical approach to this. > As a concrete example, I don't think > > http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html > > resolves the complaints about NEW and hence I don't think that the NEW > issue is an example of a communication problem at all. I on the contrary think so, the above is nice though and i didn't knew about this, but communication goes both ways. > >You wouldn't accept this kind of behavior from DDs on their package > >maintenance, > > That's not true. Plenty of DDs are non-responsive for one reason or > other, and it's perfectly acceptable; we even have documented procedures > to deal with that -- NMUs, vacation reports, and QA among other things. Ok, so you advocate NMUing the ftp-masters on NEW processing, i am all in favor for that :) Well, it is not really possible, which is why this is a problem. > It's completely acceptable for volunteers to spend their time how they > see fit, prioritising the work they think's most important, or > prioritising other parts of their life over Debian if they think that's > important. Sure. But by doing so, they stale the work of others, especially as things are important for the release schedule. > That's not to that I don't think it's worth improving this and finding > ways to encourage people to commit more time to Debian or to use that > time more effectively; and for this particular case I've already > described what activity I think would lead to the biggest improvement. > > >but it is perfectly normal for the ftp-masters to do it ? > > Meanwhile, I think claims like "You wouldn't accept this from normal > people, but it's standard procedure for ftpmaster" are likely to simply > exacerbate the problem. How well, i am grilled with the ftp-masters anyway, so ... > YMMV, of course, and if it does, you might well be right while I'm > wrong. Whatever experience I have might provide a better basis for my > judgements to rest upon than yours have; or it might mean I'm too close > to the problem and completely off-track. > > >And it is worse since the email don't come from random users, but from the > >exact same DDs who are all working together to make it all happen. > > Ideally all requests from everybody would be acted upon quickly and > effectively; but that's not feasible, so they get prioritised. Taking > developers more seriously than users, or release managers more seriously > than developers are just two variants of the same prioritisation scheme, > so I don't think it's worse at all. yeah, but for packages, we have the QA team, which can take over, or some random developer looking at the MIA status of a developer or a package can take over. For the ftp-masters this is not only not possible, but any critic is often rejected and there is a certain amount of taboo going on, which then explodes in huge flames, and the ftp-master feel aggressed by it, and don't react and then you go in circle again. And again to my purely technical question. Is it really necessary for kernel-source-2.6.11 to go through NEW once it is uploaded for example ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
