On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 09:15:40PM +0100, Sergey V. Spiridonov wrote:
>O.K., I just want to know, what is wrong in your opinion with associated actions regarding non-free programs? Are there some bad consequences, if any, which result from non-free distribution?
No, there aren't. There might be bad consequences from forcing people to use non-free software; but we're not doing that.
So, in your opinion, distributing of free and non-free produce the same
amount of good.
Uh, no. They both do the same amount of *harm*, ie, none at all.
Those situations which I described produce no evil at all, dont' they?
Distributing high quality software that's widely useful to people is a
greater good than distributing low quality software that's useful to
no one.
Of course.
All else being equal, a free license makes the software both more valuable (there's more stuff you can do with it if you can pull it apart, and put it back together again in a different way), and useful to more people.
So, distributing free software is more valuable and more good than distributing non-free?
Of course, according to you there are no bad consequences from packaging
and distributing non-free, as well as from packaging and distributing
free.
You seem to think that not doing the most optimal thing is causing harm;
No, I don't think it produces harm always. I think doing not the most optimal thing is irrational, not clever.
and thus that if you have the power to force someone else to do a more optimal thing, then you're morally obligated to make use of that power.
I think it is enough to show the irrationality.
Personally, I think that's an evil philosophy.
You probably mean the potential outcome of non-free ballot? You mean that you will be forced to stop non-free distribution in Debian? Every ballot results in majority and minority. It will be probably painful for minority to agree with ballot results. But it will be stupid if majority will suffer from being not able to do what it wants.
But even given it, that's not the choice we've got here. We've got the power to stop people from doing a suboptimal activity -- distributing some software for free, that's not DFSG-free. If we stop them doing that, they may spend some more time on DFSG-free stuff, or they might instead spend their time killing babies or selling their software at a profit.
Yes, I agree, it will be nice to convince them to work on free, or probably some other useful things. If it is possible, it will probably happen.
The amount of good does not depend of the license, but sometimes it is easier to package non-free, so according to you it will be better to package first such a easy non-free, then free, and since there is already non-free, which can solve users problem, there is no need to package free anymore, since it will be just waste of time.
No, none of that is remotely true.
I'm probably very far from understaning you.
Are you sure, that free software have higher priority for your than non-free?
If it didn't, I wouldn't be spending time on Debian or Linux. I'm not sure why you feel it's appropriate to wander on to these lists and throw around thoughtless insults like the above, either.
Execuse me please, if I abused you somehow, but it is really not clear for me from what you were saying. I show my misunderstanding by this wondering. There can be lot of reasons why someone choose to spend time working and distributing non-free software and to spend time on supporting and advocating non-free software. You said me that distribution of free is not always better than distribution non-free. That is why I wondered.
I know there are developers who do not agree with distribution of non-free by Debian. As for you, free software for them have also higher priority. What is the difference in your views? Is it caused by difference in basic understanding of what distribution of free and distribution non-free is? Or is it caused by flaw in logic chain? Second case can probably be corrected by discussion. The first one can not be corrected and should be voted or ignored. -- Best regards, Sergey Spiridonov
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