I imagine that one question has been running through the minds of people reading the recent debian-vote traffic: "what are these guys going on about?" I'm going to attempt to answer that question. With the various versions of the proposals about changing non-free, we've run into a problem where different people have different interpretations about what exactly the constitution says about the DFSG. A part of this is that the constitution never explicitly mentions the DFSG, and another part is that the DFSG has had more to do with the day-to-day operation of debian than the constitution has. So, some of the proposals involving the DFSG involve constitutional amendments, and others do not. When we look at the constitutional voting procedures, we run into a similar problem: different people have different interpretations about what exactly the constitution says about voting where some some versions of the proposals involve constitutional amendments and some do not. If we are going to be very rigorous and polite about this, we should come up with a strategy for dealing with these ambiguities which avoids, as much as possible, relying on interpretations of the constitution which have differing interpretations. I'm going to try to list and roughly describe these differing interpretations, and then I'll try to make some observations on how we might unravel the problems. [1] DFSG vs. constitution * Constitution 4.1(5) grants developers the right to issue nontechnical documents, such as those describing the goals of the constitution, and the free software license terms that debian must meet. [Controversy: it doesn't say anything about retracting pre-existing goals, and the DFSG predates the constitution. Some people think that the DFSG should be treated as equivalent in importance to the constitution.] [If this is something the developers can do with a 1:1 or 3:1 vote, that's one thing. If it's something the developers can't do, then 5.1(4) says that it's something the leader can do.] [2] Resolving ambiguous votes * Constitution A.6(1..4) defines a procedure for resolving the winner of a ballot, when there's a clear choice. But, there's a controversy about what it means in some cases when the choice is less clear. In one interpretation, when the choice has certain properties the entire ballot is invalidated. In another interpretation, A.6(5) should be used to resolve those situations. [3] Combining amendment and final ballots A.3(3) talks about combining ballots into a single voting message. These could be multiple amendment ballots or amendment ballot(s) with the final ballot. Where there's a final ballot involved, one one interpretation of A.3(3) involves the creation of extra "potential final ballots" so that voters can vote as if each of the ammendment possibilities came about. Another interpretation involves constructing a single final ballot which lists all the possible outcomes of the vote. [4] Votes which mix constitutional amendments and non-constitutional amendments If A.3(3) allows a single final ballot which lists all the possible outcomes of the vote, there's a question about what supermajority means in that context. Also, if we adopt the principle that, "given a particular set of amendment ballots, and a set of people who will not change their mind about what they prefer most, nor propose further amendments the outcome should be the same no matter what constitutional ballots are issued", then we might need to amend the constitution add some of the rules about final ballots to the amendment voting rules (or, we might need to restrict final ballots to try to avoid this possibility). * * * * * Presumably, we should modify the constitution to make clear each of these cases. We should either flesh out the constitution to make it clear that how applies to the ambiguous situation, or we should remove some text to make it clear that it doesn't apply, or we should completely replace some sections with the new material that we presume doesn't have its own ambiguities. How we might temporarily evade these issues, until then: We could avoid some of these conflicting interpretations if we can come up with proposals where all potential draft versions of the proposals are constitutional amendments, or none of them are. We can avoid others if we don't allow a final ballot to be voted on at the same time we're choosing between amendments. We avoid the DFSG vs. Constitution interpretation conflict if we modify the constitution to explicitly mention modifying the DFSG, before we try to tackle that problem. How we might get this to happen quickly: Limit debian-vote traffic to: draft proposals (perhaps with included statements of the underlying rationale), proposed amendments (again, perhaps with included statements of the underlying rationale) to drafts, messages announcing sponsorship (again, perhaps with rationale), ballots, and official announcements about ballots. Put meta discussion into some other forum. Thanks, -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]