On Monday 30 December 2019 11:38:27 Alexander V. Makartsev wrote: > On 30.12.2019 20:18, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday 30 December 2019 05:16:51 Alexander V. Makartsev wrote: > >> On 29.12.2019 16:56, Gene Heskett wrote: > >>> On Sunday 29 December 2019 04:42:20 Alexander V. Makartsev wrote: > >>>> On 29.12.2019 12:37, shirish शिरीष wrote: > >>>>> Dear all, > >>>>> > >>>>> Last year I had read some articles when I was looking to build a > >>>>> system there seemed to problems with hybrid drives. Does anybody > >>>>> know how things stand/look today and if anybody had any good/bad > >>>>> experience with them ? IIRC, the issues were more to do with > >>>>> the firmware rather than the hardware, is it the same or have > >>>>> things improved ? which package I should be looking at if I'm > >>>>> looking for solutions ? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I am ok with using either a stable or an alpha/debian-installer > >>>>> snapshot if people have had good experience. > >>>>> > >>>>> Just so people have an idea about what hybrid drives are all > >>>>> about, here are couple of links > >>>>> > >>>>> https://www.seagate.com/in/en/do-more/how-to-choose-between-hdd- > >>>>>st or age-for-your-laptop-master-dm/ > >>>>> > >>>>> https://www.howtogeek.com/195262/hybrid-hard-drives-explained-wh > >>>>>y- yo u-might-want-one-instead-of-an-ssd/ > >>>> > >>>> I strongly suggest against hybrid drives. It's just added > >>>> complexity and therefore more ways and parts to fail with time. > >>>> If you considering to buy hybrid HDD, chances are high you simply > >>>> want faster performance for your system. I don't see why to > >>>> choose slightly better solution (hybrid) over fastest one (SSDs). > >>>> For a system disk and\or laptop upgrade, I'd stick with plain > >>>> MLC-based (2 bit) NAND 250GB+ SSD (or NVMe if your system allows > >>>> it), because they have the best reliability+performance+price > >>>> ratings. Try to avoid TLC-based SSDs because they have much lower > >>>> reliability and performance in comparison to MLC-based SSDs, but > >>>> also much cheaper. And completely avoid QLC-based SSDs, which are > >>>> cheap, but slow and unreliable, similar to USB flash drives. > >>>> Backup your data (obvious), monitor health of your SSDs using > >>>> S.M.A.R.T. and you'll be just fine. > >>>> Also, watch out for manufacturers who use dark marketing > >>>> practices, offering MLC-based (3-bit) NAND in advertisement, > >>>> which is non-sense, but in reality they should be called > >>>> TLC-based (3-bit) NAND, and also avoid manufacturers who is > >>>> hiding real TBW or DWPD ratings of their SSD products and offer > >>>> only useless MTBF rating. By using TBW or DWPD ratings you can > >>>> calculate how long SSD will last in your estimated work-load. > >>> > >>> So how does one tell what sort of a drive I've bought half a dozen > >>> of for under a 50 dollar bill for a 240 gig with a sata interface > >>> actually is? ADATA's on sale usually. > >>> > >>> I've so far used them for a couple years, either on a std sata > >>> cable, as the only drive in a cnc machine or on a usb-3 to sata > >>> adapter. I've had zero drive failures and one adapter cable > >>> failure, with the 2 latest installed as swap and work drives for > >>> compiling both kernels and makeing deb's of linuxcnc on an rpi4. > >>> Cuts a kernel build time by several hours, but I have noted they > >>> do get a lot slower if the file being copied is several gigabytes. > >>> Giving an 2Gb rpi4 a 10 Gb swap to play in is plumb amazing. Using > >>> 197 megs to build the rs-274 interpreter of linuxcnc there was no > >>> slowdown while doing it. > >>> > >>> There may be better choices out there, and I'd like to be able to > >>> tell the difference, but these so far have been more that good > >>> enough for "the girls I go with". > >>> > >>> Cheers, Gene Heskett > >> > >> You have to read through specifications that are available on > >> official web site of the manufacturer. > >> In addition to what I described in my previous email for OP, ADATA > >> is also takes an opportunity to trick their customers, for an > >> example they sell "Ultimate SU650" model which, according to their > >> web site filter [1] could be either TLC or MLC type, and you still > >> can't tell exact NAND type by reading specifications table [2] or > >> the sticker on the device itself. > >> Obviously, there is no way to see if manufacturers are lying about > >> their specifications before you actually buy the specific model of > >> SSD. And after you bought it, you can check the internals of it > >> with SSD-Z utility. [3] > >> I don't know if similar utility exists for Linux, though. > >> > >> [1] https://www.adata.com/en/Solid-State-Drives/25/ > >> [2] https://www.adata.com/en/specification/503 > >> [3] http://aezay.dk/aezay/ssdz/ > > > > Thank you Alexander, interesting links, particularly the last one. > > I've not even tried to snoop thru these as so far they Just Work. > > > > Is smartctl growing any knowledge of these yet? I've not been aware > > of any updates to it in a year or so. > > I don't think so. This information is quite the low-level stuff, far > beyond simple S.M.A.R.T. manipulations, so I'd expect such > functionality more from projects like "lshw", "hdparm" or similar. > > > What os does this SSDZ work on? > > It is relatively new at this moment and supports Windows only. I don't > know if author has Linux support in mind for future releases.
Bummer since this has been a linux only house since 1998, Thank you Alexander Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
