On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 03:51:22PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 01:45:52PM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote: > > I was referring to "add your MTA for no good reason". > > That is vague and really not true. > > Why do you think that? Your ability to find out why a specific domain got on > a blacklist is pretty close to zero. You may be able to look at every single > email being send from the domain, you might be able to verify that there's > nothing bad there (no spambots, etc), but you can't find out what message > got the domain on the blacklist. You can't even validate that the message > which caused the block passed the SPF checks and was actually sent from > infrastructure controlled by the domain in question. Once upon a time you > could actually get that kind of information but those days are long gone. >
The most common blacklist I check on a regular basis via rblcheck (deb package exists). But with the rest I agree. And my "not true" was based on "no good reason". Nobody just puts you on a blacklist to f**k with you. You really must piss some people of or hit a lot of honeypots (spamhaus) to end up on these lists. > > However as a person I depend on e-mail and I really never had any of > > these issues. > > How would you know? Honest question. Unless you get a reply to every mail > you send, you can't actually know whether every mail was recieved. > As I said, my communication is centered around e-mail. If one side goes quiet I'll notice. I had on case when Johnson and Johnson made some changes to their mail services and my domain got blocked. You pick up the phone then. > > I look at how these heuristic based filter work and it is easy to > > maintain a form of communication where the likelihood of blocked > > is low. > > Pretty much don't do anything marketers do. > > Do not use binary content. > > Do not use HTML > > No links either > > Avoid explicit words. > > I could go on. > > So if you do that and end up on a blacklist, what's your next step? > > > > So, a Debian contributor Alice sends a private e-mail to a Debian > > > contributor Bob. Both Alice and Bob use arbitrary e-mail servers, most > > > likely beyond their control. E-mail bounces, Alice does not get any > > > meaningful diagnostics, Bob does not get a e-mail. It can happen. > > > > > > > It can happen, you could win the lottery :) > > Could, Would, if and but. All vague forms of arguing. > > It does happen, whether you want to accept it or not. Either your assessment > of the odds are wrong or I want to find out where you play the lottery. > Sorry, I did not want to argue with you or upset you. I know it can happen and you are right it is more likely than winning the jackpot. I wanted to make sure to actually base this on real facts. I am just opposed to "bad things are gonna happen, if you don't watch your back, BOOOOO!" To make this discussion mor meaningful you possibly could provide some numbers, how many times this actually did happen (at least to you). I am aware that these issues exists. I just want some more proof that this is significant in numbers. I know about the cases when aol blocked almost all mailinglists and smaller hosts. Or google try to muscle smaller/independend mailhost away. But now the dust basically has settled. And email will be stronger when we have more small/independend mailhosts. -H -- Henning Follmann | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com
