On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 07:14:01PM +0300, Reco wrote: > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:24:42AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 05:57:40PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 10:48:44AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 07:31:57AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote: > > > > > If you setup your DNS properly create SPF an DKIM almost all > > > > > providers will accept your email IF (and that's a very big if) > > > > > you do not spam. > > > > > > > > That's a nice idea, but simply not true. You'll be ok right up until > > > > you aren't, and as a small site you have no recourse to find out what > > > > the problem is. > > > > > > Such statement is incomplete without some examples. > > > Judging from your long history of contribution at Debian project, > > > surely you have some that can be shared with the list. > > > > It's really hard to share specific examples without naming domains, so > > no. In general terms, It's almost unheard of to get any kind of > > response from the RFC-standard postmaster@ address these days. Most of > > the time, the best you can hope for is a bounce (rather than your > > message silently going into the recipient's spam box). If you're lucky > > the bounce will say something like "sender on blacklist X". If > > blacklist X is reasonably well known you can probably verify that the > > sender is on blacklist X. If you ask blacklist X why the sender is on > > the blacklist you'll get no response. Maybe something misattributed a > > spoofed email (relatively few sites actually care about SPF etc so > > spoofs are still extremely common), maybe someone hit the spam button > > accidently, maybe somebody doesn't like your ISP, maybe they don't > > like your country, who knows? At that point you descend into a shady > > world of extortion schemes, and need to make decisions about whether > > to pay third parties to "certify" your domain to a blacklist. > > So it boils down to "MTA needs care on a regular basis" and "some > blacklist can add your MTA for no good reason". First one is universal > (applies to any Internet-facing service), second one can be beat with a > creative use of hosting. Also, https://mxtoolbox.com. A non-free > service, but a useful one. >
Can we be more vague? This is how conspiracy theories spawn. > > > In the old days losing an email was considered unacceptible; > > It still is, you just have to consider a corporate communications as > well. > > > > these days, there is so much junk that false positives are expected > > and routine. > > That haven't changed much in the last 15 years. How is that to be expected? This all sounds like hear-say but did this actually happened? > > > > Yeah, I've been doing this for a long time--more than 20 years of > > dealing with email servers--but I don't really think email in its > > traditional form will exist much longer. > > With all it's disadvantages, SMTP is one of the few examples of > successful federated (i.e. - non-centralized) form of Internet > communications. The other ones are slowly dying IRC and dead XMPP. > So I disagree. They can put all the fancy additions (like SPF, DMARC and > DANE) to it, but SMTP has a strong chance to outlive a current > generation. > With this I agree! > > > Heck, there are even debian > > contributors whose personal email domains bounce emails from other > > debian contributors. Who knows if they're even aware of that? > Are you aware of one? Really _KNOW_ this to be true? > I somehow doubt that Debian project membership requires to be an expert > in any MTA, or to have any system administration skills for that matter. > In another words, of course it's not normal, but is something that's to > be expected. > > Reco > Well, yes, I block random domains. But doing so is not random. I first try to contact the e-mail owner and the admin. But if they do no stop sending spam they are banned (usually forever). I also block constantcontact and mailchimp, because they are basically commercial spamming services and anyone can add anyone on any mailing list. OTOH I really do not have any issues with my mailservices. I run a couple of domains and there were really no issues in the past. I am maintaining still the point that being blocked has 99% to do with how you run your service. If you are not spamming people you also will not end up on a blacklist. No one is really interested just to mess with your e-mail if you are not bugging anyone. -H -- Henning Follmann | [email protected]
