-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 08, 2017 at 11:56:10AM +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Le nonidi 19 germinal, an CCXXV, Martin Read a écrit : > > If a systemd unit for a particular service needs the attention of an expert > > in order to be robust, the SysV-style RC script for the same service > > probably also needs the attention of an expert in order to be robust. > > > > As such, I find your suggestion that declarative configuration causes > > 'stronger separation between "priests" and "mortals"' more than a little bit > > questionable. > > I think Tomás is perfectly aware of that, and quoted that argument from > systemd opponents without making it his own.
I'm aware of that, but still make this argument (in part) my own. There is a whole spectrum between a script that "works in my environment" and a robust script, as Martin envisions, the kind you would package as part of a distribution, having to cope with very different environments. The beauty of that spectrum is that a "mere mortal" can walk this thing gradually, improving in the process. I think it's perfectly legitimate to disagree with me on that, but there you are. > But you raise an interesting point. The people who invoke that argument > do not realize that they are already experts, "priests", of the shell > scripting language. > > I think that explains some of the most vocal systemd opposition: systemd > aims to get rid of the scoriae of the past, but since it is IMHO > somewhat over-engineered, it has a learning curve that is rather steep > at the beginning. People who painstakingly learned the specifics of > shell scripts and init scripts are afraid that their skill will lose > value or become obsolete and they will need to start again. It's more: there's a huge gap between "doing what systemd allows", in its declarative language, and changing the way it works, which involves grokking the C sources. This kind of layering is what we software "engineers" do all the time, but in this case, the layer gap is far too wide for my taste. regards - -- tomás -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAljpSRoACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYaJwCfabVz/zbvHY+l9MPTGa7KhVzg iFkAn2U0f7CLJDOroBxVs2zY+IcjfQTk =ipzA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
