Le 05.11.2014 15:32, Miles Fidelman a écrit :
Specifically addressed to those of you who are responding to systemd,
etc., by considering:
- finding ways to make it easier to install/configure Debian without
(or with minimal) systemd dependencies (certainly not in PID1)
- migrating to another distro or platform
- forking, deriving, or otherwise building a version of Debian that
avoids systemd dependencies (or at least systemd in PID1 by default)
- developing a new distro entirely
[If you're happy with systemd, and not considering a change - please
stay out of this discussion. If you object to the very nature of the
discussion, hit your delete key and kill file this thread now.]
Rather than have this topic keep showing up in various threads, with
various uninformative names, what say I just pose the question
directly.
If you're unhappy with systemd (and it's associated ecosystem),
and/or with the directions that it's taking Debian (and/or large
portions of the Linux ecosystem):
1. What are your issues, reasons for doing so - general and/or
specific?
2. What are you considering, evaluating, or otherwise thinking about?
3. What other options/initiatives are you aware of that you've
discarded or otherwise are not considering, and why?
Hum. Yet another systemd's thread... hopefully it won't be another
endless one.
Now, about your questions.
1)
I doubt that systemd's developers knows where their puppet will end. I
liked the idea of removing those weird shell scripts in /etc/init.d, but
it does just too many things now. Really, I can't trust a project which
does not have defined boundaries, especially when it's a key component
of the system.
Also, since the decision was taken to make it the default, my systems
running under Jessie were actually slower to boot, with a 30s delay in
udev (and I did not changed the init system). A workaround was posted
here some months ago, but I can't remember what it was.
There is also the fact that now, when I use startx, I am no longer able
to read what happen on the TTY where I've started startx. I guess, that
it can be configured, but I don't understand why my system's behavior
was changed by an update? I do not want a system where the behavior
changes without a warning. Of course, it's testing, so things changes...
but such a change should not be silent.
Those things are facts, that maybe I am the only one to experiment. I
do not know, and I do not mind.
Also, systemd's key feature to be event-based is useless to me. It
probably makes it faster to start working on bloated systems (like, for
example, systems which uses gnome or kde?) but I'm not a bloat user. So
event-based daemons starts does changes nothing for me. And if I have to
configure a real server, for production uses, I would tend to prefer to
have something like one service per virtual machine. So, again, useless
for me.
2)
I want to take a real look to *BSD, especially netBSD. I have read some
source code for various basic tools, and it is clear to my eyes:
netBSD's code seems to be very clean.
FreeBSD seems to have some efforts in virtualisation too, with bhyve,
but it's a type 2 hyperv, like virtualbox, so I'm not really sure about
it. And I did not had the feeling that it's ready for production use
from what I've read.
Also, I am curious about what will happen to uselessd and udev
alternatives. They might allow to build interesting things.
Gentoo interests me a lot, also. I always had an eye on it, and even
tried it. But failed. Next holidays, again? I know that it requires more
maintenance than Debian, but I guess that it might not be that dramatic
if it is only used as dom0 for xen, with some *BSD machines on it.
Updating almost only kernel+xen should not be that time-consuming,
right?
3)
LFS. Because, for now, I do not have time and skills. Maybe on my next
holidays?
Debian fork, or something like that, I do not remember the URI... but
anyway, what I felt when I discovered the site, was that I was reading
some childish declarations of doing the wheel better than what exists.
We'll see if anything can spawn from that, but I've no faith there.
Sometimes, when I feel by far smarter than I really am, I think that it
might be possible to improve dpkg, to do stuff like gentoo's package
manager. And why not make it able to install softwares in ~? And why not
make aptitude less bloated? While I would be there, I also could make
all that stuff able to do more than one thing at a time and so improve
the speed (at least, downloading, unpacking, and selecting packages
could be made without blocking other tasks)... But then I wake up: I'm
not smart enough to do that kind of things :)
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