Le 19.12.2012 16:25, Hugo Vanwoerkom a écrit :
Michael Biebl wrote:
On 19.12.2012 01:04, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
Michael Biebl wrote:
On 19.12.2012 00:34, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Except using sudo, I know no solution... sadly.
Maybe you can do something with policykit, too, I never tried to
understand how it works, but I think giving rights to some
softwares is its role.
sudo is one option, the other is to use upower (which runs as
system
daemon with root privileges) and use a command like this
$ dbus-send --print-reply \
--system \
--dest=org.freedesktop.UPower \
/org/freedesktop/UPower \
org.freedesktop.UPower.Suspend
This related to LXDE which I am trying out. The hibernate and
suspend buttons do nothing in the logout menu. Googling says that
LXDE uses pm-utils. So I was guessing that invoking
pm-hibernate/suspend was involved, which I can do as root but not as
user.
Since the user session runs unprivileged, and
pm-suspend/pm-hibernate
need to run as root, you will need to go through a system service
like
upower.
I know nothing about LXDE, but e.g. in GNOME, the power manager
simply
sends the above dbus requests when you hit the suspend button or
close
the lid.
I would expect LXDE provides a similar user power management agent.
Indeed. I found this:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PolicyKit#Suspend_and_hibernate
Follow that and addgroup power and adduser to power and you can now
hibernate and suspend.
Hugo
A bit out of topic, but I wonder why there is no other solution than
using dbus to let a user shutdown/hibernate/suspend his computer? This
is not the only point where the problem apply: you have same troubles
with network, and maybe on other things I did not experiment (to add
softwares and/or modify system-wide configuration files, I think it is
perfectly normal to need root, because no normal user does those actions
everyday).
Of course, there are workarounds, with dbus, sudo...
Of course, the way things are actually done is nice for enterprises,
which need a high security level, at least for servers.
But, in my humble opinion, linux should not be reserved for
enterprises, some people uses it at home, for pleasure (like me) and
this over-security is counter-productive: I am switching to root quite
often, for things as simple as asking to renew my IP address on a
network, suspend my computer, changing wifi network I am using (if I am
in a friend's home, at work, in a "cybercafe" (don't know english name,
sorry)...).
This results in having a quasi-permanent root console enabled on my
system, which is not really safe (I enabled a special colored prompt to
avoid doing mistakes there ;) ).
I could use the workarounds, yes, but I tend to prefer minimalist
systems, and I do not really know where dbus is needed on my computer:
my softwares usually do not need to communicate, except for copy/paste,
but this is done through X11 AFAIK.
As I prefer minimalist things (no true desktop environment, by example)
I did not install policykit, because:
_ I can do everything I need without it. Only "simple" things are more
boring: power and network management in my situation
_ I do not understand how it works (and because it is not needed and I
have many other things more important to learn, I do not want to learn
about it for now)
I can understand the interest, for enterprises, which is probably where
linux is the most widely used, but is it only political reasons, or is
there is a technical limitation?
In the first situation, it could be interesting to provide a way for
simple users to control their computers. I am seeing linux as a system
for tinkerers and people who like to have choices. And on those things,
there are no real choices: root or dbus. Even windows is able to
shutdown a computer with a command made by basic user (shutdown IIRC).
The strange point is that you have physical access to switches allowing
you to poweroff your computer (and network: for wifi, you often have a
button, for wired you can unplug the cable), but you need special
password to ask a new IP or shutdown correctly the computer?
Well, to shutdown the computer, you can also switch to TTYs, and do
CTRL+ALT+SUPPR to reboot. Then, use the button... Err... simple...
I remember some article about Linus Torvalds complaining about the
over-security in distros, needing to use root account for most actions.
I do not agree on all of his words, but on that point, I have to admit
that for my usage, those points are simply boring.
Of course, I know that it is needed for other people in various
situations (poweroff on a distant computer with user access could be a
big problem by example) but what I would like to know is, is there any
technical reasons to avoid users to shutdown a computer, or use
ifconfig, ifup and ifdown tools?
I do not say that the option of having things controlled by precise
rights access have to be removed, it is very useful in some situations.
But is there is more servers, or user computers? Should a way to use the
computer be sacrificed for the sake of another?
I do not think so. But, maybe reasons are technical...
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