my mistake forwarding to list --- joseph lockhart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 01:39:40PM +0000, Steve > > McIntyre wrote: > > > [ /me sets the Reply-To: to debian-cd again... ] > > > > But not Mail-Followup-To:... > > > > > >At a bare minimum: > > - installer - downloadable (business card) > > - installer+base - downloadable (netinst) > > > > - CD - disk 1 downloadable, disk 2+ jigdo-only > > > > - DVD - disk 1 downloadable, disk 2+ > jigdo-only > > > > - BD - one image jigdo-only > > > >That's 25MB + 650MB + 4GB of images per-arch, > for > > about 61GB in total, > > > >plus a whole bunch of jigdo images (about > 500?). > > > > So more like 25 + 150 + 650 + 4000 = 4825 per > arch, > > for about 63GB in > > total. Either way. > > > > > >Is it possible to create a jigdo image without > > creating the full > > > >ISO? ie, to go from a list of files you want on > > the ISO straight to a > > > >jigdo template without the intervening step of > > actually copying all the > > > >files around? > > > Oh, absolutely. That's one of the biggest > changes > > I made in > > > debian-cd/mkisofs to improve performance. > > However... if we want to > > > continue providing torrent downloads (which are > > very popular, I > > > understand) then we do still need to make the > full > > images too. > > > > So, there's three user scenarios, I guess: > > > > - great network access, download everything > > directly (netinst > > gets the process started quickest, and > > downloading everything > > is fine) > > > > - good network access but don't want to download > > debs multiple > > times, or want to download in bulk in advance > > (run a proxy or > > mirror; or download DVD/CD images, and use > them) > > > > - bad network access (buy/download everything on > > DVD/CD/BD and use > > it to install, or populate a local mirror) > > > > And there's four ways we can get debs to people: > > > > - regular archive (apt, netinst, jigdo) > > - raw images (download via cd mirrors) > > - torrented images (download via cd torrents) > > - vendors burn images and mail them to people > > > > If you're buying/mailing images, it's out of our > > hands, provided vendors > > can get images in the first place, so ignore that. > > Our regular archive > > is already mostly optimised, so the more people > > using it, the better; > > that's just a matter of more jigdo use, afaics. > > > > That leaves us with torrent and http iso > downloaders > > -- possible lots or > > possibly not too many depending on whether we can > > make jigdo any easier. > > But I don't think there's any way to avoid that, > > it's just a question > > of how many, isn't it? > > > > I guess there's an inequality like: > > > > images on mirrors <= images on torrents <= images > > via jigdo > > > > And images on torrents = images you have to > > generate. And the inequalities > > go the other way too: > > > > ease of downloading >= ease of torrenting >= ease > > of jigdoing > > > > and the real question is where you say "if you > > really want the 23rd CD > > for mipsel, you're probably smart/dedicated enough > > to use jigdo". > > > > The other thing we /could/ do is encourage people > > who've done successful > > Debian installs to help contribute by > participating > > in a torrent after > > the fact -- you could do all sorts of things like > > have a FUSE filesystem > > that takes a (partial) mirror and a jigdo file and > > lets you see fake iso > > files, which you then seed via bittorrent, eg. You > > could automate that, > > so it's just a question like the popcon one: "Do > you > > wish to participate > > as a torrent seed for other people installing > > Debian? Yes [No]" > > > > Another option would be a jigdo firefox plugin -- > > even if a pure > > javascript jigdo turns out too hard, a plugin > ought > > to be pretty > > easy. Otherwise there's Java potentially, but at > > that point you start > > getting into OS-specific scenarios, and worrying > > about ActiveX or .NET > > and installers or whatever, at which point things > > get too hard. :-/ > > > > I guess another option would be to have a virtual > > appliance that will > > do all the jigdo stuff for you by running a cut > down > > Debian in a virtual > > machine (vmplayer, qemu, etc) and generating the > > isos for you. > > > > Hrm. In the real world, does jigdo actually > saturate > > broadband bandwidth? > > It's been a long time since I've tried it, but I > > vaguely remember it > > not actually being very speedy. Ah, it was the > "stop > > downloading, add > > files to image" that used to slow things down, but > > seem less of an issue > > now. The repeated wgets probably still aren't > great > > for that matter, > > since it serialises downloading and establishing > > connections. > > > > Cheers, > > aj > > > > > perhaps a method of creating custom disks on > download > would work, some sort of task select (based on cdd i > suppose) that allows the use of jigdo to pull in the > packages desired, so user A wants kde with opera no > problem, user B wants fluxbox with opera, and user C > wants to go without X but have mySQL and Samba, or > whatever. perhaps nested menues (similar to the > ncurses form of aptitude) to select items and then a > custom jigdo image(s) is created. the lib files and > dependences need not be addressed by the user (just > have them pulled in like aptitude does). > > this is just thinking off of my head, but I think > that > it would be a step beyond other distros. for newbies > a > standard install disk (like now or three gnome, KDE, > and xfce), and the ever important netinst disk > > jwlockhart > > Registered Linux User #458799 > Registered Kubuntu User #19678 > this user is penguin powered > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > jwlockhart Registered Linux User #458799 Registered Kubuntu User #19678 this user is penguin powered ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
