On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 03:19:07AM -0600, Mike McCarty wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > [snip] > > >I've noticed the same kind of disputes in natural languages. For > >example, English speakers usually perceive a clear semantic difference > >between "many" and "much". Yet it's possible to give a purely syntactic > >rule to distinguish them -- you use "many" when modifying a plural noun, > >and "much" for a singular one. > > This is not true. For example, I have said "I've eaten too much > beans". "I've eaten too many beans", though it isn't something > I've said, *could* be said, and would not mean quite the same > thing. Another place where this doesn't work is with "grits". > One never has "many" grits. One *could* speak of "many grits", > I suppose, but that would not mean the same thing as "much grits". > Another one is "oats". One does not have many oats. If one were > to ask "How many oats do you have?" it would mean "How many > varieties do you have?", and not "What quantity do you have?" > > Asking "How much beans did you eat?" means "what quantity", perhaps > in servings, or ounces weight, or volumetric like cups, but "How many > beans did you eat?" means "How many different varieties of beans did you > eat?" (like in a seven bean salad) or "Give me an exact count of how > many beans you ate." (like 50). > > The issue is whether the quantity is considered to be continuous, or to > be discrete. Usually, when one speaks of a quatity of discrete objects, > one uses a plural noun. Likewise, usually when one speaks of a quantity > of something considered to be continuous, one uses a singular noun. > But this is not always the case. > > Another way to think of it is this: If one *counts* the amount, then > one uses "many", if one *measures* the amount, then one uses "much". > This is regardless of whether the noun used be plural or singular. > One does not actually *count* the number of beans he has eaten, so > one uses "much beans" and not "many beans". "Many beans" means one > needs to count something, like varieties, or make an actual count > of the number of beans eaten. Most native speakers would be somewhat > confused upon being asked "How many beans did you eat?" He wouldn't > know the exact count, and would wonder why anyone would want to know > it, anyway, so would wonder what was really being asked. > > Peas also fall into this category. I don't know whether I could > find examples which are not related to food, but believe me, the > issue is if you ask "how many" then you want an actual count, > and anything not counted is not a "many", but rather a "much". > > I consider myself a native speaker, since I started when I was about > three years old. (Spanish is the first language I spoke.)
Interesting set of examples. THank you. They com close to seemingly plural singular nouns, like "a people", but not quite! Dutch is my first language -- I started English when I was five. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
