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----- Original Message -----
From: "Manoj Srivastava" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: this post is not off-topic
> >>"David" == David Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> We have decided to release for 11 architectures, because that
> >> pleases our muse.
>
> David> Point 4. of http://www.debian.org/social_contract says "Our
> David> Priorities are Our Users and Free Software". I think even you
> David> will agree that, prima facie, my argument for optimizing the
> David> greatest possible user good looks more consistent with these
> David> priorities than your statement above.
>
> Our users. Not our users of the most popular
> architectures. _all_ our users.
>
> David> Do you really believe that the Debian community should not
> David> "worry about the rate of return of our effort"? Your argument
>
> What debian community? Who gets to decide how developer time
> is spent? Who do you think has any input in prioritizing the work
> that is to be done, and why do you think they have the right to do
> so?
>
> David> seems to be that we should not do so, because Microsoft does
> David> so (therefore it must be bad?).
>
> In free software, the tenet is those who do the work make the
> rules. If that makes us an elitist cabal, well, we always were. If
> that means that Debian no longer meets your ideal, well, sorry.
>
> What you are missing is even a modicum of understanding of the
> motivation for the people who put in the effort and do the work for
> Debian -- I certainly do not do this (working 20 hours a week, over
> and above the 50-60 I do for work, and trying to keep the house and
> lawn in shape, etc (I also happen to run an active D&D campaign, but
> well)) for the unwashed masses. Do you know what motivates the
> developers? Developers most certainly do _not_ live to serve.
>
> David> I think the Debian leadership made a mistake in its decision
>
> Debian leadership? The project leader has no say in deciding
> what architectures one releases. Indeed, a large number of sub
> projects must come together (boot floppies, build daemons, porting
> team, number of packages up to date, etc), and some one has then to
> finally convince the RM that the port is ready for release. There is
> no central leadership that makes these decisions. There is no command
> from up on high "And behold, we shall release for 15 architectures
> next release. Pass along the bull whips and lick the developers into
> shape". Indeed, the decision to add an architecture is a grass roots
> effort, and bubbles up from below - by the people who actually do the
> work.
>
> David> to support more architectures than Debian could without
> David> negatively impacting the mainstream base. Amid mounting
> David> criticism from the user base, the posture of many of those
> David> invested in that decision has been to adopt a cabal-like
> David> attitude ("this is our project and we deign to let you use
> David> it") rather than to try to reach out to the
> David> community. Frankly, your statement above is exemplary in this
> David> regard. I'm afraid that route will lead use away from the
> David> free-for-all, inclusive Linux world toward the high quality,
> David> but rather austere and unfriendly BSD world.
>
> As far as I have been aware, the majority of people working
> for free software work because it pleases their muse (or scratches
> their own particular itch). The user base helps by helping make the
> software better; in return for getting to use it. Anyone can
> participate -- by helping with bug reports and fizxes, patches, etc;
> and even getting a say in how debian works by committing themselves
> to Debian; no one tells any other volunteer how to spend their
> time. All that is needed is essentially "Show us the code" (or help
> us improve it). People are not excluded because we are the holiest of
> the holy and outsiders are dirt. There is no core Debian team. And
> users certainly are not in control; and popularity has never been a
> Debian goal.
>
> The ``community participation'' does have limitations. Telling
> me how to spend my time comes with the obligation of helping me pay
> my mortgage. My posted rates are $250 an hour. Anyone telling me how
> to spend my time has to pony up the moolah.
>
> manoj
> --
> What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon.
> Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
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>
>
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