on Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 01:16:50PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Ok, ok, I give up. For what's it's worth, here's what I have learned from > the day's events: > > 1) Don't respond to mail when you're already in a poor mood.
Excellent advice. I should have followed it myself.
I did consider strongly before sending my post (note: the title is
drawn from Kevin's comments themselves, not that this excuses anything,
but I can go all petulant and whine "but he started it"), but succumbed
to temptation. Wanted to see a hornet's nest. Did. Also had a message
or two to impart, hope I managed to do so.
> 2) In fact, don't respond to mail at all if you're going to be expressing
> your opinion, unless you've got some homies on the Debian list who will
> "back" you. People know Karsten, and they don't know me, so he wins by
> default.
First, thanks to the fan club. There's times things do get moderately
bleak in life, and it's nice to know someone appreciates you. Really.
And my apologies to those who're already tired of this thread....
Second. This isn't win/lose. It's live/learn.
Third. It's that rep thing. As I said, it's worth something. Mind, I
did do a scan on Tom's email address, and found a handful of sensible
posts. You're not evil, Tom. At least not pure evil.
Fourth. Tom's right about something: I'm an ass. When I want to be,
I'm a major ass. It's a cultivated skill (more below). It's also
generally tacticly deployed. I try to be an ass with a point -- getting
a message across, as I said. I guess that makes me a pointy ass instead
of one of those fashionably tight, rounded ones, c'est la vie.
> 3) Many Linux users are full of technical skills, but lacking people
> skills. (This was basically what I was told in one reply) Sad, but
> apparently true. I should just accept this and move on.
Despite appearances, I've been told by people, not under the influence
of drugs, threats, sleep deprivation, or other forms of coercion, that I
can be delightfully charming, if the mood strikes.
A friend of mine, Rick Moen ('nother interesting character, BTW), notes
that a gentleman is never _unintentionally_ rude to someone. Likewise.
I will, however, be intentionally rude if I'm given no quarter, but only
to the limited extent necessary. Might even take pleasure in it -- it's
a honed skill.
> 4) Don't make any requests unless you can help to carry them out
> yourself. (By that logic, I can't report bugs in Apache, since I
> can't fix them, and I shouldn't request documentation unless I have
> the time to write it).
Not entirely true, Tom.
Kevin had two faults. One was excessive, _persistent_, petulance. Note
that he's *still* coming 'round swinging -- quit while you're behind,
Kev, unless you're just trolling (which was my initial thought on
reading your first post).
A single round is OK. Insistence is boorish.
The other was his unwillingness to carry any weight, let alone his own.
I don't see free software support as being handholding and crutch-
dispensing to all comers. It's a bit of clue-distribution to those
who've gotten stuck.
If you're going to use and exploit GNU/Linux extensively (beyond, say,
sanitized, package, appliance-type products) you ultimately:
- Have to be at least partially self-sufficient.
- Shell out Real Money® for some Real Support®.
- Or you are better of using another tool that comes with paid-in
support.
IMVAO: freeloaders not wanted.
> 5) It's ok to make disparaging remarks about people if they're clueless
> Windows users (who come from a totally different paradigm than Linux
> users), but it's not ok to make disparaging remarks at those who get
> after these "clueless users".
No. And if you're referring to my own comments, you're grossly
misrepresenting them. Ignorance isn't a crime. Petulance is.
> 6) Appearing to be a bit of an elitist and bashing clueless Windows users
> are good ways to gain popularity in the community.
Nope.
> We were all newbies ourselves once. Personally I've been using Linux
> for a couple years, and I've done a hell of a lot of research on my
> own to get things working properly. I didn't have anyone to help me.
> I also came from a Windows background, and I recognize the vast
> differences in the Windows and Linux communities. Because I remember
> what it was like to be a newbie, I want to help others who still don't
> quite know what Linux is all about. Telling people that you're adding
> them to a killfile because you don't like their sense of community !=
> a good way to get new community members. Maybe you don't really care
> if more people start using Debian, but I do, because of what a great
> experience it has been for me.
Agreed.
I've been using Unix for nearly fifteen years, GNU/Linux for four. I am
*still* learning things, daily, and have plenty of blond moments. What
I *don't* do, though, is walk into a group and either criticize without
basis (I'm more than happy to criticize *with* basis), or make demands
of people (though I will suggest what I see as improvements). One of my
early episodes found me responding to this English guy after I'd posted
something to comp.os.linux.development.system. I thought the name
looked familiar, so after telling him I thought he was wrong about
something I plugged "Alan Cox" into Alta Vista (this was a long time
ago....). You never know who you're going to run into on line.
Show your superiors some respect.
First: it humors them, and keeps them from suspecting what you're
up to. The surprise attack is vastly more effective ;-)
Second: they maintain the illusion they're your superiors.
Third: it's for your benefit, not theirs. You're the person who's
looking for assistance, not them. You have little information
of value (though bug reports and experiences are useful) to
share. The one thing you can offer is a small token of
deference.
I've helped any number of newcomers to GNU/Linux, some personally, some
only electronically. The real gems are the ones who shoot past my own
skills in some area and turn out to help me when I'm struggling through
my own difficulties. Rare, but immensely rewarding.
Haven't seen or heard from Kevin the past two days. I didn't mean to
scare him off, just straight. Kev, if you're out there, drop a line.
(later)
...Oh. I see. Still unrepentant, eh? Take five, kid, take five.
Cheers.
--
Karsten M. Self <kmself@ix.netcom.com> http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal
http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org
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