On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 13:45, Craig Dickson wrote:
> Paul E Condon wrote:
>
> > Suppose, all human life were to perish. In that case would the value of
> > pi (3.14...) perish as well?
>
> The value of pi is dependent on the geometrical concept of a "circle"
> having a "radius" and a "circumference". These are human-created ideas,
> not a priori "facts" existing in the universe. So if there were no
> humans around (nor any other beings that view the world similarly), then
> pi would have no meaning.
>
> A slightly better (because seemingly less abstract) example would be
> gravity. Without humans, would there still be a gravitational force? Or
> to put it another way, did Newton "discover" or "create" gravity? Well,
He discovered ("take the cover off of") the mathematical model that
rules the universe.
> on the one hand, objects behave today just as they did before Newton,
> and will presumably continue to behave the same way if Newton and his
> works are forgotten. But to say that there is a "force" of gravity is
> not a statement about the universe; it is a mental model, essentially a
> metaphor, that is useful for describing the observed behavior of the
> universe. To say that "There is a force called 'gravity' which draws
> masses together" is semantically imprecise. It is better to say,
> "Objects in the observable universe behave AS IF there were a force
> which draws masses together." Gravitational force is a metaphor, not a
> fact, created by humans as a way of describing the observed (by humans)
> behavior of objects. It has no necessary value to other (hypothetical)
> beings who may view the world quite differently and may have come up
> with their own ways of talking about the phenomena they observe. So
> without humans, in a sense there would be no more gravity -- not that
> the universe would behave any differently in consequence.
Heh, it sounds like you've been to one too many philosophy class...
So, there would obviously not be the *word* gravity, but there would
still be attractions between masses in the manner in which *we*
describe as F = G(MaMb/r^2).
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