>>>>> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Markevich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jonathan> Let me begin by saying I don't plan to prolong this thread
Jonathan> after saying my piece. Insert smilie here.
<aol>
me too
</aol>
Jonathan> Personally, I agree. The issue brought up was not one of
Jonathan> "is Emacs powerful" or "is emacs 'intuitive'" but "is
Jonathan> emacs useful to a newbie?
Agreed. How ever, as with several of the other posters, you've
apparently felt the need not just to opine that (X)Emacs isn't
newbie-friendly[1], but to make several other statements that indicate
that you haven't actually used any emacsen for long enough to really
be commenting on how it works.
Jonathan> It reminds me of ~three years ago the 313373 unix bigots
Jonathan> said "Who needs KDE, I use sed to modify my olvwm config
Jonathan> file." Now they say they run GNOME...
(Aside: that doesn't mean they're not using sed to modify their .*rc
files, just that they're doing it with a prettier desktop picture.)
Jonathan> The point is; some of us don't want to load a browser and
Jonathan> a news client and a "doctor" game to write an e-mail
Jonathan> message.
The point is, emacsen are designed to be *modular*. If you don't want
to load those things, then don't load them -- hell, delete the *.el
files that you don't need -- the basic editing functionality is still
going to be there. If you don't code Perl, ditch cperl.el. If you only
use Mew, dump Gnus.
The modularity of emacsen allows you to customize your installation to
your needs. Some people find this more difficult, or more trouble than
it's worth, and that's okay. Some of us like the control that this
type of setup gives us, and that's good too.
Jonathan> We'd rather work the *nix "toolbox" way.
Using an emacsen variant _is_ working the *nix 'toolbox' way, it's
just that instead of using your tools in a shell, or in a
point-and-click GUI, you use them inside an editor window. Some people
prefer to work in a garage, while others like to have a whole
dedicated workshop -- but both types of people still use saws and
hammers.[2]
Jonathan> Just realize that and don't condemn us for that, and on
Jonathan> the larger scale, realize that something like pico is
Jonathan> *good for Linux*...
Just realize that this cuts both ways -- you like pico, or joe, or ae,
or (n)vi(m) -- whatever works for you is good. Just don't make
misleading statements about the tools other people like to use, okay?
Jonathan> Thanks for the pedestal. Back to lurk mode.
<aol>
me too.
</aol>
john.
Footnotes:
[1] Which is fine; we can agree to disagree about this. In some
cases, we'll both be wrong, as newbies come in all sizes, colors,
and flavors.
[2] Please don't try to make garage==shell and shop==emacsen, or vice
versa -- it's an innocent little analogy, so please don't corrupt
it by reading too much into it.
--
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[ John S Jacobs Anderson ]------><URL:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[ Genehack: Not your daddy's weblog ]------><URL:http://genehack.org>
