> > > It's really not so damn difficult to be honest, but the first time or two > > it might seem daunting. > > Why not try to make it less daunting? Is it supposed to be some sort of a > rite of passage?
Exactly! I keep seeing posts from people who say "All I did was 'cat /usr/bin/pon' and went and edited "/etc/ppp.chatscript.". Well, tell me, where in the Debian installation guide (ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/stable/disks-i386/current/install.html) does it mention "pon" (or even "ppp" for that matter)? In fact, show me where in the installation guide it even makes reference to ANY other document that refers to "pon" or "ppp". This leads to the question: How many hyperlinks deep do I need to go before I find out how to install Debian? Second, why should someone have to "cat /usr/bin/pon" to find out to edit /etc/ppp.chatscript anyway? I mean, I have to say that the Debian installation routine is so simple it's silly. So why doesn't it just go that one extra yard and ask a simple question like "Will this system be connected to the net via a PPP connection?" and then let me specify which com port and what the dialup number/login-id/password are? Even the people who claim that "ppp was a breeze" admit that they had to hunt around a little before they found the right files to edit (either that or they cheated and asked a friend). It's silly. There's no mention in the installation guide that ppp is even included in the base system, or that someone with only dial-in access to the net can use ppp with dselect's ftp method to add new packages. Instead, you get tossed into dselect without even being given the chance to get ppp going for the first time (even if you *did* know the files to edit). Now *that's* intuitive. Don't get me wrong, Debian is great and it's got some really cool features, but those features are not made apparent to a newcomer to the distribution. Here's an example. A buddy of mine in San Francisco recently e-mailed me that he had just installed Debian (his first Linux) and that he needed to know how to read a DOS floppy because he had used Win95 to download some tar'd and gzip'd msql source or whatnot and wanted to copy it onto the Debian machine. I explained to him the Debian packaging system (which he hadn't been made aware of in the docs he read or the install program)... and how he should go get the .deb files.... and that, when he's feeling brave, he should get ppp going and use dselect. So, he went and ftp'd (with Win95) some deb's and copied them over to the Debian machine and used dpkg to install them. Then, he got gcc and was stuck because it was bigger than a 1.44M. So, I told him that it was time for the "rite of passage", that he was going to have to go with ppp and dselect (which, again, he was not made aware of). It took about 3-4 days of e-mails before I got a message from him with the subject "I'M ACTUALLY DOWNLOADING WITH DSELECT!!!!!". The ordeal shouldn't be such that it would cause him to act like he had won the lottery. I guess my point is that Debian is not doing a good job at embracing the "first-time linuxer" and probably even the "first-time Debian linuxer". As a result, Debian is THE thing to be running as long as you've got a friend who has installed it before who will help point you in the right direction. And it doesn't have to be that way. I'd be glad to help... but in order to, I need at least SOME indication from others that they agree there's a problem here. Up until now, all I've heard is denial. - Joe
