On Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 12:46:21PM -0800, James Hamilton wrote:
> My Gnome/X/Debian GNU/Linux Desktop is much "slicker" than
> anything I have ever been able to do with Windows. The Gnome
> apps have a fairly consistent interface as well. There is a steeper and
> longer learning curve to learn how to really use X and Unix, but I would
> say that is an asset for members of the technocracy rather than a
> drawback. I honestly don't know what you are talking about. Using
No, you are not listening.
The slickness of the UI isn't what you can accomplish with the OS,
but rather about how things look. Look at the icons, look at the
buttons that gnome provides. Simple and functional, but not nearly
the degree of sophistication that Windows/MacOS provide. Look at the
integration of the application UI into the OS UI, it all looks the
same.
Now maybe if I used FVWM2, or KDE, I would see more of this, but
frankly they act too much like windows (hit people, having the
minimize, maximize and KILL WINDOW buttons so close together is
wrong. This is one of the many UI issues Apple got right in OS 6-9,
but broke in X, and that windows got wrong with the 95 style UI). so
and use too much screen realestate for their icons and task bar, so
I use a different window manager (one of what, 20? available).
> the NT box I am using now to post this message is sheer torture, but
Outhouse huh. What's the Free Replacement for that?
> I have to have one Windows desktop and support one Windows server
> here at work. I would say the functionality of Linux is currently and
Functionality is not useability.
The Functionality of Linux is far superior to Windows in every area
except common desktop applications (Word processors, spread sheets,
Graphic Design (which is the only reason I still use MacOS at home,
there is simply nothing in the Open Source world that is any where
near Illustrator and Quark X-Press, and while the GIMP comes close
to PhotoShop, I've been using Photoshop for over 10 years now, and
I'm used to it).
Yes, I've used Star Office and OO, and they are good, but not quite
ready.
> rapidly surpassing that of Microsoft OSes, and that perhaps you haven't
> found or learned the right environment and apps. With Windows,
> everthing gets set up and it works the way MS decrees it will. With
> GNU/Linux, you have a huge number of choices. Part of becoming
> a real user of open source is spending a lot of time evaluating different
Stop right there.
Do *NOT* assume because I criticize Linux that I don't know Linux.
I'm not going to get in a DSW with you, but I started using Linux
with kernel .99p6. I've built X from scratch (once). I use Linux on
my desk at work, and I'm one of like 2 or 3 in my office to do
so. I've used Slackware, DeadRat, Debian, and SuSE. I am the team
lead for a small SA team that maintains a 100+ server site,
primarily (and if testing goes well this week, soon to be almost
completely) Linux based. We're pusing an average (24 hour average)
of around 60 Mbits a second, and our front end is entirely Linux.
I spent my weekend fighting with kernels and LVM to get snap shots
working properly
I've used Linux as a desktop OS for 5 or 6 years, either primarily,
or in conjunction with my Mac. I've used Star Office, Open Office,
SAIG, Lyx, and WordPerfect on Linux (among others) for word processing.
I've used or tried just about every mail application out there for
Linux, and (check the headers) use Mutt daily at work--with Exchange
no less.
I don't criticize Linux because I know windows better, I criticize
Linux because it's not as good as it *could* be.
In fact, I don't know windows better. I've only had 2 machines of
"mine" that run windows--one is a work laptop used for Word and
accessing a shared mailbox on Exchange, the other is my
Counter-Strike box. That's all that's on it. Windows, and the files
needed for Counter-Strike.
> enviroments and applications to figure out what it takes to make a
> system really consistent and usable for you. Even if you pick some
> things that aren't quite finished as part of your enviroment, if they
> are part of an active project, they will be working much better soon.
Go into Netscape, open up some random web page. What's the key
command for find?
Now open Lyx. What's the key command for find? Mutt? Opera?
OpenOffice?
Just like Windows 3.11.
Which was my point.
> Once I set up my box, my roomates (non-tech) can use it to surf the
> web, read their email, write papers, browse newsgroups etc with a
> fairly consistent and truly complete suite of free applications.
I did that 5 years ago for my wife.
Of course, that was also true of Windows 3.11, with the exception
that the underlying OS wasn't free.
--
Share and Enjoy.
