On 24/04/21 at 20:07 +0200, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote: > Du schriebst in gmane.linux.debian.devel.release: > > Lucas Nussbaum writes: > >> It looks like the three open paths for resolution are: > >> > >> A) understand and restore the behaviour from Debian 10, that is, get X > >> to work in a degraded mode after installation. How it worked with Debian > >> 10 (and why it doesn't with Debian 11) is unknown. > >> > >> B) In the installer, detect that firmware-amd-graphics or > >> firmware-misc-nonfree should be installed, and either install it (?), > >> or redirect the user to the unofficial installer that includes them. > >> > >> C) Do nothing and document this in the release notes > > > > There is at least also > > > > D) Install (non-free) firmware and include it in official install media. > > > > I don't think degraded operation (just vesa, no sound, no wifi, known > > issues in microcode, ...) will continue to be an attractive option. > > So maybe we should revisit whether we should just include firmware; I > > wanted to suggest so at least for Bookworm. > > +100 > > Let's postpone the tentative release date and use the time to create > a separate non-free/firmware section which contains the various > firmwares and amd64-microcode/intel-microcode and which gets included > in our default installation media. > > There can still be special images for use in virtualisation, containers > and special hardware for those who care, but let's end this fallacy. > > If the involved teams (FTP masters, d-i, debian-cd) feel they > need some educated opinion from the rest of the project, then by all > means let's settle this with a GR, but A-C are just wasted efforts > or provide a horrible user experience for no benefit at all.
I am still unconvinced that the situation is worse with bullseye than it was with buster. It would be great if more people with relevant hardware could compare the status with both installers to understand if there's a regression somewhere. IF there's no regression compared to buster, I don't think that we should delay the release to properly solve this at this point, but rather work around the issue by improving the hints in the documentation and the installer. We have been in the current situation for years. I really fail to see what is fundamentally different now. Lucas
