Your message dated Tue, 02 May 2017 06:26:00 +0000
with message-id <f5d01795-31a0-2b2a-e9be-2046d1a26...@thykier.net>
and subject line Re: RC-ness of failures due to missing systemd
has caused the Debian Bug report #861641,
regarding RC-ness of failures due to missing systemd
to be marked as done.
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861641: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=861641
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package: release.debian.org
I'd like to hear official position of the release team regarding the
bugs caused by lack of systemd, for example #856720. In the case above
the package was working fine in a system with systemd present because
/run/diaspora was correctly created by systemd. But it was not working
in systems without systemd like docker. Is systemd part of a standard
debian installation? If not what are the standard installation
environment we should support? Are we expected to support docker which
not have systemd?
Thanks
Praveen
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On Tue, 2 May 2017 11:30:29 +0530 Pirate Praveen <prav...@debian.org> wrote:
> package: release.debian.org
>
> I'd like to hear official position of the release team regarding the
> bugs caused by lack of systemd, for example #856720. In the case above
> the package was working fine in a system with systemd present because
> /run/diaspora was correctly created by systemd. But it was not working
> in systems without systemd like docker. Is systemd part of a standard
> debian installation? If not what are the standard installation
> environment we should support? Are we expected to support docker which
> not have systemd?
>
> Thanks
> Praveen
>
Hi Praveen,
I have not read the full bug log of #856720 (TL;DR + ENOTIME), so I may
have made assumptions that are not fully applicable to this case.
In general the situation you describe sounds indeed like an RC bug.
Rationale
=========
As systemd is not essential, its functionality must not be assumed in
any way. In general packages must be installable and functional under
e.g. sysvinit, which is a supported alternative init system.
(Exceptions apply for init specific tooling, where it would not make
sense to support alternative init systems). Related:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg00005.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/08/msg00001.html
Indeed, most packages should also be installable and functional in a
chroot or a container. Partly so the service can be used during a build
(e.g. using a postgres/mariadb for a test during a build[1]) and partly
so administrators can use it as a containment strategy (e.g. an
additional layer of defence).
Furthermore, /run is a tmpdir wiped at boot and the package must ensure
that any files in /run are created as they are needed (and per above,
you cannot assume systemd will do this for you).
This is required by FHS 2.3's definition of /var/run (plus Debian
Policy requirement for FHS 2.3 + its remap of /var/run to /run).
- NB: Simply creating the /run/<pkg> directory in postinst is *not*
sufficient as the directory will be wiped during boot.
If you believe that the rationale does not apply to this situation,
please reopen the bug.
Thanks,
~Niels
[1] Admittedly, you should probably not use the "system-wide" service in
this case as it would have undesirable consequences for people building
on their host system.
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