This is a delurk. Normally I'd ignore such conversations, however John's point here was salient enough to grab my interest. The NM process could certainly be a bit quicker, I doubt anyone findamentally disagrees with that. However, this approach is making me want to defend the 'party line', where I wouldn't necessarily have done so before.
On Thursday 29 December 2005 13:45, skaller was like: > On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 03:35 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > > While insiders are not qualified to comment on how outsiders *feel* about > > the process, they are certainly the people to judge whether the *outcome* > > of the process is the correct one. > > Outcome for their own personal pleasure? No: they're not > qualified to judge the outcome either: that's a judgement made > in the market by end users. Based on that Debian is reasonably > successful .. but way WAY behind Microsoft. Do we really > want that?? Bogus argument. We actually all get an opinion on this. > > Sorry, if you want Debian to make > > particular changes to make it easier to contribute, > > Not really: I would like people who know more than me > about the processes to choose the changes so that the > outcome I desire is obtained -- an easier way for > people less committed to Debian than a DD to contribute. Let me get this: - It's not that you want to actually do any rowing yourself, but every time you look the seats are all taken anyway? > Ubuntu agreed with me, and made it so. It is still > quite hard though. (It's easier to become a MOTU than > a DD .. but it still requires way too much commitment > to the project for someone whose primary commitment > is to *developing* software rather than packaging it). Good. > > you're much better off > > arguing it in terms of the *benefits to the project* > > To whom? A project isn't a human thing, it cannot > gain benefits. I am interested in Debian only in that > it benefits the whole human race. Huh? It is so a human thing. > It does that -- IMHO -- by making it easier to install > and run an Open operating systems and tools.. something > I'm all in favour of. But the process itself is still > too much of a burden to participate in for those less > committed to Debian -- in particular upstream developers. > It's probably even worse for end users ;( God, yeah. In four years' time, I might not even still be interested in computers, or alternatively may have mastered C programming, who knows? I may Hate Debian by then. Damn, it's so difficult to become a DD that I don't even feel guilty about not trying to become one. > I can suggest whole heap of things that would improve > the situation .. but I can't choose which ones to > implement. All I can do is ask .. please do SOMETHING > to streamline the process a bit more and to make it > a bit easier for more people to get involved. OK, I'll do my bit, which is largely to shut up and stay out of the way. I'm not a member of the Debian cognoscienti, nor am I ever likely to be. I am, however, now that small percentage closer to accepting the status quo. Deeper and down. ;) -- cheers, tim hall http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
