Hi debian-python (2021.08.26_07:14:20_+0000) > I've taken it over, and started an Agenda: > https://pad.dc21.debconf.org/p/20-python-team-bof
Notes from the BoF: The video should be published in a couple of hours, to: https://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2021/DebConf21/debconf21-97-python-team-bof.webm Attendees: Diane Trout and her cat Elana Hashman Emmanuel Arias Jonathan Carter Kyle Robbertze Nicolas Dandrimont Romain Porte Stefano Rivera Thomas Goirand State of Python in Debian ========================= Python 3.9 is currently the default, with 3.10 available in experimental. We plan to make 3.10 supported in unstable in October and then make it default once RC issues are resolved. We have been trying to mend the rift between Debian and upstream. Hard to tell if things are any better. Some people upstream still recommend avoiding Debian/Ubuntu Python. See "Other upstream issues" below. Adding python3-full for bullseye was part of this. We aren't ready for all PEP517-packaged modules. See below. Debian Python Team Status ========================= Volunteers always needed for team-wide maintenance, removals, etc. Should we push towards git sources, as in: https://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2021/06/msg00026.html Consensus was yes, even if watch files continue to point to PyPI. * ACTION: (olasd to propose) document policy change -dbg module package removal =========================== pydebug doesn't involve an ABI change any more, so all C extensions are compatible with the -dbg interpreter, out of the box. We can retire our -dbg packages, and migrate to automatic -dbgsym packages. * ACTION: need tracker/list to be set up for package removal (no volunteers) * ACTION: (olasd to ask pollo to) add a lintian warning for python-foo-dbg packages python2.7 removal ================= python2.7 is 99% removed, we're basically there. We plan to remove python-is-python2 from bookworm. pypy and pypy3 still build-depend on python2.7. The rpython toolchain is being slowly ported to python 3, but the upstream is in no hurry, as they maintain a Python 2.7 interpreter (but provide no real security support for its standard library). pypy can be migrated to be manually bootstrapped, or automatically bootstrapped from cpython2.7 sources copied into the pypy source package. Is bookworm shipping with (CPython) 2.7? We probably don't want to. We may ship with a pypy 2.7, primarily for building pypy3. Shall we keep virtualenv support for 2.7? ========================================= This will require a separate pip stack for virtualenv. Stefano is tempted to, for pypy (2.7) Consensus is NO, we don't need to spend time on this. pip in Debian ============= Can't upgrade to the latest pip without dropping 2.7 support. Consensus was to do this ASAP. PEP 668 has been filed about making the ownership of packages between apt and pip clearer: https://discuss.python.org/t/graceful-cooperation-between-external-and-python-package-managers-pep-668/10302 pip has struggled to get sufficient maintenance over the years, more maintainers would be appreciated. A big part of its complexity is the de-vendoring of its dependencies. Shall we vendor pip dependencies? ================================= pip has a special place as the one and only tool you expect to have in a virtualenv, so it vendors libraries that it depends on. https://github.com/pypa/pip/tree/main/src/pip/_vendor The de-vendoring mechanism was made in cooperation with upstream, but they don't like it, and don't support our use of it. It doesn't really provide the "single security update" benefit as rebuilding the wheels needs a sourceful upload of pip * ACTION: stefanor to open the conversation with the security team on what they think about us re-vendoring the deps of pip (in terms of impact on them). PEP517 in Debian ================ The python world is moving to PEP517+518. They define how to build python packages with tools like setuptools, however they only define the process to build wheels, not to install packages into the system. We need to create build tools that can drive pep517 + pypa/install and then install the wheel, unpacked. dh-python already supports flit, directly, not using the pep517 mechanisms. Emmanuel is working on poetry support, and will look at more general tooling after that. Other upstream issues to be aware of: https://bugs.python.org/issue43976 - Add vendor information https://bugs.python.org/issue44982 - Allow Python distributors to add custom site install schemes SR -- Stefano Rivera http://tumbleweed.org.za/ +1 415 683 3272
