People in this debate are making some very sweeping statements about Free vs Non-Free software, Rights etc. Much of this is because non-free is all being lumped in together, and then being compared, in general terms, with software from The Evil Empire. I have been looking the licenses of the pieces of non-free software which I have available to me (as in the non-free archive) and the main common factor is their diversity. It is probably worth re-examining how a piece of software ends up in non-free: 1) No commercial sale. This is by far the most common category - software which comes with source, may be modified and used at will, but may not be sold at a profit. Many of these are games where the author hopes someone will pay them a fee if they do get put onto a compilation CD. I can see that a commercial profit making organisation might want to persuade people to change their license so that they can sell CDs with other peoples work, at a profit. 2) No right to modify Here the author wants to keep very strict control over the distributed version of their work. (Qmail etc) We may not agree with the author (who is usually Dan Bernstein) but it is very hard to apply the 'code in non-free is of poor quality' argument to, for example, qmail 3) Restriction to use by Radio Amateurs Several packages, only of interest to Radio Amateurs, are otherwise DFSG free, but have a clause which prevents them from being used other than by Radio Amateurs. This clause is common in such software because the license terms for Amateur Radio allow such software to be carried on packet BBS systems, which may not be used as general purpose software repositories. 4) No source available This is mostly Netscape - which is probably the most commonly used non-free package. Mozilla is making great progress, and anyone who has not tried it recently should try it again, but some areas need work. If all the effort which has gone into this debate had gone into improvements to Mozilla then it would probably have overtaken Netscape by now. There is also JDK - again there is a free alternative, but the way to promote free software is to improve it, not to try to restrict access to the non-free version. 5) Picons packages The various picons packages contain things like company logos, which are protected as Trademarks. They need to have a license which acknowledges this, so that the owners of the logo do not lose their Trademark status. 6) Software encumbered by patents Mostly otherwise DFSG free software which manipulates GIF files. These are DFSG free in countries which do not recognise software patents. I suspect removal of non-free would result in big arguments about putting these into non-US/main (which would be left in an odd situation if the export regulations on cryptography were removed) 7) Aladdin Ghostscript This (and probably a few similar packages) is released as a no-commercial use version, with the previous version being released as free software. People could fork a fully free version, if they feel very strongly about it (but they could end up damaging a free software business, and would probably leave the Page Description Language market entirely with Adobe) In summary: Non-free really means 'read the license' - if we remove it as a section we will see many more arguments on debian-devel about, for example pieces of software with some minor clause in their license which prevents it from being DFSG free. John Lines -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]