-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello Pipo,
Sorry my replies are not thread aware. I have done all kinds of searching to find this mailing list on NNTP to no avail. I an find some of the other lists.debian.org on NNTP, but not the debian-live. This makes it difficult for me to reply to the debian-live list in thread aware manner via the message-id header of the mailing list message. Messages only flash on the splash screen when there are errors as best I can determine. Until Debian 9 I did not know this as in all the years i have used many different Debian based and non-Debian based (SuSE, RedHat based) LiveCD images either the splash screen stays until DE is started or at some point the splash screen gives way to familiar many messages shortly after the kernel is loaded. The standard splash options of the Debian Live images do not appear to provide a fail safe boot option that I suspect would have no effect on the flashing error messages on the splash screen. The LiveCD imsage being used is the Buster 10 Testing image of 20190617 from the Debian: <https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/ > As of this reply the 2019-06-17 images are still present. The issue is not firmware based on several reasons. First only since Debian 9 has there been issues with the LiveCD images. Prior to this no such Debian LiveCD issues. Depending on the Debian Stretch 9 Live version, i.e. 9.x, The LiveCD iamge will or will not boot. So far for Buster 10 Testing I have only tried the 20190617 image. Issue is not DE specific, i.e. affects all DEs of the version of LiveCD for Debian 9 or 10. No problems booting to Live for Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu for 19.04, 18.04, 16.04, 15.10, 15.04, 12.04, Knoppix, Linux Mint, Fedora, CentOS, Scientific Linux (many versions over the years), Slax,org (9.x versions Debian based only tried and all just fine), et al. That suggests not firmware based issue per se. I should mentioned a few years back Debian LiveCD had a major problem in my experience where the Kernel booted just fine, but the DE would not start due to some odd issue with X determining the monitor such that the screen became garbage. If one knew what the screen was fo DE environment one could still effect system shutdown proving it was just the video messed up. Again the different Ubuntu, Fedora, RedHat, Knoppix, had no such issues yet Debian insisted it was a firmware or hardware issue of the different machines I was using at time. Later as of Debian 8 this X issue no longer existed proving the issue was in fact Debian proper based. The point here is for some reason Debian is slow to admit an issue is Debian based for many reasons I have no idea why. Bottom line is the Linux Kernel boos and has booted just fine on these and many many many machines for years, yet Debian Live or Debian install do not behave the same on same machine for exact same Debian version for reasons unknown that Debian will say is firmware based (PC BIOS or Video card) when clearly the difference of same version or even in my case exact same LiveCD iso has different behaviour depending on what option for same kernel version being used. Without covering the messy details of Debian Stretch 9 only free or including non-free LiveCD images there is clearly a mess in the manner of how the LiveCD images are created. This is clear as the ability to or not boot the variant on same two different Lenovo machines has a messy combination of different boot successfully or not boot successfully issues that also still include X issues, but at least not X garbage video issues when compared to any other Debian or Non-Debian Live Image. The fact that with my creative approach to the Debian Buster 10 Testing 20190617 Live image that the kernel with the initrd load, but have some sort of error that the same ISO image does not have for the Install splash screen issues proves the issue is in fact Debian based bug and not a firmware bug. I do not think I will submit any bugs on the issues I have found. I have no time to keep repeating what I have stated many times and being told it is not a Debian issue when clearly the issue is Debian specific and not a free or non-free issue. I have been through posting Debian bugs in past and this same going in circles on issue that over time, sadly long long time, sorts self out. In meantime it means those trying to use Debian are simply pushed away from Debian to other Debian based distributions and likely why these Debian based alternatives exist as even then Debian still cannot absorb the clearly free only elements of fixes or how to do basics. I also feel I have run my course with trying to use debian-live list as means to confirm the issues of LiveCD for Debian 9 and 10 that did not exist in Debian 8 LiveCD images. Research I have done indicates the bug issues I have raised and the process issues have been posted about in past. I happened to come from a very technical and diverse IT background of many years dealing with bugs that engineers in corporate environment respond is not a bug that is in fact a bug and after weeks or months of my time in various corporate settings manage to have engineering admit the issue was a bug and over time those same engineering teams will contact me to assist them to deal with issues that have been going on for few years engineering cannot identify. The point here is not patting myself on back. The point here is I have seen countless times even with hard evidence engineering teams will deny issue exists including seeing systems for a 600 CSR team handling their 10 million customers fail every day so system is down over 8 hours at time as technical services teams deal with each day that engineers say is not occurring. I have had other team members pass problems to me they want me to deal with as after months are unable to find the bug issue which turns out to be a bug for sure, but still takes a few weeks to isolate so can report to engineering teams. The scope includes many different OSs, often OSs I have never seen or used before, various embedded systems and protocol converters, wide wide range of hardware/firmware, et al. I think all for their input and questions, but I will no longer spend time on this matter on any Debian mailing list nor will file any Debian bugs. I have spent way way too much time on this matter matter that in my opinion is/are Debian bugs. I have found clearly serious bugs in very well known OSS that have existed for years that takes systems down for hours to months that nobody believes is possible, let alone existed for years. When I first identified one of these OSS issues it was just ignored despite clear simple concise test facts presented. The other issue I identified has also likewise being dismissed as does not exist. Both have become much worse over the many years these bugs have existed. John L. Males Toronto, Ontario Canada 23 June 2019 20:35 ================================================================ 2019-06-23 23:21:40.060975931+0000-UTC Time: 1561332100.063987283 23 Jun 23:21:40 ntpdate[10312]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1) 23 Jun 23:21:54 ntpdate[10320]: step time server 206.108.0.132 offset -0.011414 sec Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12) Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch) (Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress) cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected): model name : AMD E-350 Processor vmstat -s: 16026156 K total memory 3311416 K used memory 8701640 K active memory 4738048 K inactive memory 2066616 K free memory 299300 K buffer memory 10348824 K swap cache 0 K total swap 0 K used swap 0 K free swap 147160026 non-nice user cpu ticks 57049936 nice user cpu ticks 168283708 system cpu ticks 409408335 idle cpu ticks 2476997 IO-wait cpu ticks 0 IRQ cpu ticks 3680691 softirq cpu ticks 0 stolen cpu ticks 289226968 pages paged in 33046508 pages paged out 0 pages swapped in 0 pages swapped out 2489632846 interrupts 2903916855 CPU context switches 1557283473 boot time 397272011 forks /proc/vmstat (Selected): pgpgin 289226968 pgpgout 33046508 pswpin 0 pswpout 0 pgfree 49205830615 pgfault 83228907917 pgmajfault 904290 /proc/meminfo (Selected): Mlocked: 144 kB VmallocTotal: 34359738367 kB VmallocChunk: 0 kB HugePages_Total: 0 vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap): partition was not found sar -b: Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian) 06/23/2019 _x86_64_ (2 CPU) 12:00:01 AM pgpgin/s pgpgout/s fault/s majflt/s pgfree/s pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s %vmeff 10:55:01 PM 0.00 0.05 21728.41 0.00 11826.78 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 11:05:01 PM 0.00 0.00 22366.88 0.00 13101.99 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 11:15:01 PM 0.00 0.00 22106.74 0.00 12151.40 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 Average: 0.03 0.00 22078.69 0.00 11940.25 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 ps -A: %CPU START TIME C CLS COMMAND TIME NI PID POL PRI SZ RSS VSZ SIZE MAJFL MINFL SCH STAT TIME WCHAN 0.0 May 8 51:09 0 TS kswapd0 00:51:09 0 35 TS 19 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 S 00:51:09 - Message replied to: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:00:04 +0000 From: "John L. Males" <jlma...@gmail.com> To: debian-live@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello Loco, > > Sadly the the "bootdelay=" parameter does not make any change > to the speed of the error messages to the splash screen. As > far as I can determine the bootdelay did not have any impact > of a delay. I tried values of 10000, 1000, 7000, 8000. > > I tried to video the original issue with no boot delay in > hopes may capture the error message on the video. So success > unless I try to edit the file to see frame by frame is > something more might be extracted. That will clearly take > time. I have some other commitments so it may take me a few > days between commitments, time to find software to look at > frame by frame, and the actual time to go through the frames > before I know if I can find any sense of the exact error > messages that are being sent to the splash screen. > > I think at minimum one bug should be opened concerning the > fact the error messages fly by with no ability to capture the > error messages issued by the boot parameters of a splash > screen boot menu choice a user selects. That in itself has > caused me many hours of effort to find out the message and > time of others to test or respond to the issue of the Live > Image failing to load that as indicated all other Live Images > based on Debian boot with no issue on at least two Lenovo > systems I have. > > > John L. Males > Toronto, Ontario > Canada > 21 June 2019 19:00 > > > ================================================================ > > 2019-06-21 22:44:11.817141180+0000-UTC Time: > 1561157051.821097215 > > 21 Jun 22:44:11 ntpdate[27517]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun > Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1) > > 21 Jun 22:44:26 ntpdate[27524]: step time server 206.108.0.132 > offset -0.005730 sec > > Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12) > > Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch) > (Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress) > > cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected): > > model name : AMD E-350 Processor > > vmstat -s: > > 16026156 K total memory > 3615912 K used memory > 9005812 K active memory > 5026860 K inactive memory > 1466976 K free memory > 292480 K buffer memory > 10650788 K swap cache > 0 K total swap > 0 K used swap > 0 K free swap > 143600260 non-nice user cpu ticks > 54498370 nice user cpu ticks > 160706614 system cpu ticks > 389208998 idle cpu ticks > 2470870 IO-wait cpu ticks > 0 IRQ cpu ticks > 3527106 softirq cpu ticks > 0 stolen cpu ticks > 289204260 pages paged in > 32704708 pages paged out > 0 pages swapped in > 0 pages swapped out > 2229440451 interrupts > 2507703921 CPU context switches > 1557283473 boot time > 379662352 forks > > /proc/vmstat (Selected): > > pgpgin 289204260 > pgpgout 32704708 > pswpin 0 > pswpout 0 > pgfree 47092961190 > pgfault 79337426075 > pgmajfault 904112 > > /proc/meminfo (Selected): > > Mlocked: 144 kB > VmallocTotal: 34359738367 kB > VmallocChunk: 0 kB > HugePages_Total: 0 > > vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap): > > partition was not found > > sar -b: > > Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian) 06/21/2019 > _x86_64_ (2 CPU) > > 12:00:01 AM pgpgin/s pgpgout/s fault/s majflt/s pgfree/s > pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s %vmeff > > 10:15:01 PM 0.00 0.00 22366.62 0.00 > 11917.31 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 10:25:01 > PM 0.00 0.00 22890.88 0.00 12573.94 > 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 10:35:01 PM 0.00 > 0.00 22503.77 0.00 12080.69 0.00 0.00 > 0.00 0.00 Average: 0.00 2.81 22134.99 > 0.00 11927.34 1.10 0.00 1.10 99.97 > > ps -A: > > %CPU START TIME C CLS COMMAND TIME NI PID > POL PRI SZ RSS VSZ SIZE MAJFL MINFL SCH STAT > TIME WCHAN > > 0.0 May 8 51:09 0 TS kswapd0 00:51:09 0 35 > TS 19 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 S > 00:51:09 - > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iF0EARECAB0WIQQxRId2q5JPHFiozTr5X9dS0HpoEAUCXQ1hdQAKCRD5X9dS0Hpo > EAmQAJ93tKO1aLB1PzLRlTsqVN6LR1cXjQCfQUdJUJ0VFLIOZsnlPhfUDtn7TJI= > =wFfw > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQxRId2q5JPHFiozTr5X9dS0HpoEAUCXRAauwAKCRD5X9dS0Hpo EHPfAJ0bJ3xNWjn1fmmqAA1WBgE2P6t6xACgwBDZeT1uOSemxZI5TjFzuy+IkCY= =dTow -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
