On Sunday 31 July 2005 06:35 pm, Michael Poole wrote: > Sean Kellogg writes: > > On Sunday 31 July 2005 06:45 am, Michael Poole wrote: > >> In contrast to choice of law, choice of venue requires users who are > >> not normally subject to that court's personal jurisdiction to give up > >> a right they normally have to use the software. Take your pick > >> whether that is discrimination or a fee or something else, but waiver > >> of pre-existing rights is a clear violation of the spirit of the DFSG. > > > > How is that descrimination or a fee? Someone earlier mentioned that > > right to a jury trial is protected by the DFSG?! Seriously people, we > > are talking about software here. I personally subscribe to the four > > freedoms staked out by FSF. I understand that Debian has extended those > > freedoms in certain areas with the DFSG, and in ways that I agree make > > sense, but reading in rights to a jury trial or a right to have only > > personal jurisdiction within the state/country of residence is just not > > one of them. > > Waiving normal personal jurisdiction is a lot more costly than the > proverbial (and still forbidden) "pet a cat/dog" license -- yet there > is nothing in the DFSG that directly addresses petting an animal. > > > But, if I grant your point, and accept that the DFSG protects my right to > > all those things, why doesn't it invalidate licenses that waive liability > > to the distributor? Isn't that my inaliable right... a fee I must pay in > > order to use the software... aren't I being descriminated against to the > > benefit of the developer and distributor. Its an outrage, its > > unexusable... but it is the way it is, and I fail to see a distinction > > between libability waivers, venue clauses, or rights to jury trials. > > It is not discrimination: every user is treated identically.
Same with the petting an animal... everyone has to do it. Did you know that pre-18 years olds CANNOT agree to a waiver of liability? Seems waivers descriminate against them. > It is not a fee: implicit warranty and similar liabilities are created > by law. Where a warranty disclaimer applies, it is because the > relevant law allows that warranty to be disclaimed. Personal jurisdiction and rights to a jury trial are created by law... where venue clause and trial by jury waivers apply, it is because the relevant law allows them to stand. See, I can write similar sentences that are JUST as true. Should we continue to dance, or will you accept my point? -Sean -- Sean Kellogg 3rd Year - University of Washington School of Law Graduate & Professional Student Senate Treasurer UW Service & Activities Committee Interim Chair w: http://probonogeek.blogspot.com So, let go ...Jump in ...Oh well, what you waiting for? ...it's all right ...'Cause there's beauty in the breakdown
