Ean, Staphane... I think I understand how each of you two feel; however, I would like to remind you guys that this whole thing is supposed to be fun. :) This is sort of degenerating into a bit of a flame war; perhaps before responding to future messages (including this one? :) take a few minutes to remind yourself why you are contributing to Free software to begin with. Debian is a hell of an OS, thanks to wonderful work, and lots of disagreements over time. Please don't get soured on your work here due to a difference in opinions.
It might serve everyone's interests more to argue over the technical merit of each proposal. I want to thank you guys, for making debian a system that I want to develop my Java code under. It is real pleasure to code on Debian -- and it is due in large part to your hard work. Thanks. :) On Thu, Sep 09, 1999 at 04:08:13AM -0500, Ean R . Schuessler wrote: > On Thu, Sep 09, 1999 at 10:28:30AM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > My name is Stéphane. You can drop the accent on the first e if it is > > more convenient. > > Apologies. > > > Thanks for the "half conceived". The proposed Java policy has been > > sent on this list several months ago and discussed and modified many > > times. <http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/> > > Well, something is either a complete work or some part undone. I think I > have been kind in my 50% attribution. > > > What is official in Debian? You seem to think that the only worthy > > texts have been blessed by some authority. The Perl policy have not > > been: people on debian-perl discussed it and it was adopted by rough > > consensus. Same thing for the Emacs policy. Do you mean the Debian > > Project Leader or any other official body has to formally approve any > > decision which is taken to improve Debian? > > I don't know what the official policy on policy development is. Filing > bugs against a spectrum of Java related packages, however, is certainly > not it. I realize I haven't helped you mature your policy as much as I > could have but I don't think that stands as a justification for your > methodology. > > > I hesitate on this one. After many messages on the list announcing the > > release of java-common and its inclusion of the proposed policy > > <http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-java-9907/msg00015.html>, > > the words "suspiciously slipped" are insulting. Should I get really > > angry or did I miss something? Anyway, I accept in advance your > > apologies. > > Considering the chain of events and my typical tone I find myself > suprisingly spare in the "go shove it" department. I wouldn't complain > to much. > > > The current policy says (I respect the capitalization): > > > > PROPOSED Debian policy for Java ... An important warning: this text > > is a proposal. I put it here, publically, so it can be read, > > discussed, implemented, ignored, etc. It has no sort of endorsement > > from any authority in Debian or elsewhere. > > > > If it is "blurred", it means I should never try to write in English. > > I don't think your policy belongs in the potato distribution. It is to > confusing and it is being dissiminated to a much wider audience than the > population of this developmental list. It is simply to preliminary and > too blury. > > > You forgot to say that it was labelled "wishlist". Closing a wishlist > > bug without any delay for the discussion (bug 44459 was closed > > yesterday) is rude and certainly does not help to convince that you do > > a good job as a maintainer. Bugs are several years old and still not > > closed. Bug 44459 was closed in less than a day. > > Admittedly, you have irritated me and my actions reflect that. > > > "Then, it will be war" (J. Caesar, 51 BC) > > Don't be foolish. If your perceptions are that the removal of the > java-common package is the start of some sort of "war" then I find your > input neither objective nor desirable. > > > The proposed Java policy has been discussed many times here. What > > prevented you for joining the discussion? > > Time. Time and the obviously considerable amount more that would be > burned up refining your somewhat limited policy. I think that you > realize that there is a considerable amount of work to be done and that > you were trying to be productive with your actions. However, I think > that goading people into helping you is not going to get you the results > you might hope for. > > I appreciate that you are trying to be constructive. You must realize, > however, that time with Debian is most often donated and that if you > intend to _demand_ anything you had better do so with the most tactful > and careful tone you can arrive at. I appreciate that you took the time > to sit down and write a page and half long attempt at a Java policy. The > thing that you had better start to appreciate is that your effort does > not represent anything comprehensive or well thought out and that your > attempt to enforce it has already raised the hackles of more than one > developer. > > I am honestly trying to help you communicate with me, but you will not > find an unlimited supply of interest in that department. > > > You're welcome. Everything that I wrote here is public. I can imagine > > the leader or the people in the TC learning that debian-java people > > cannot work together and need their vote (it is even possible that > > nobody in the TC programs with Java...) > > I don't think that it would come as much of a suprise to any long time > Debianer that people often fail to work together smoothly. If my message > isn't clear in that paragraph, let me spell it out for you. You will be > better served if my interest in your effort is positive rather than > negative. If you do not alter your tactics my interest will become > definatively negative. > > Are we crystal? E > > -- ___________________________________________________________________ > Ean Schuessler As above > Novare International Inc. so below --- > Some or all of the above signature may be a joke > > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a > subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Seth Arnold | http://www.willamette.edu/~sarnold/ Hate spam? 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