On Thu, Mar 30, 2000 at 01:36:37AM +0200, Nils Jeppe wrote: > On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Craig Sanders wrote: > > > yep. the DUL lists dynamic (dialup) IPs, it doesn't list static IPs. > > that's why it's called the MAPS Dialup User List. > > Well then I have to agree, DUL is bad, because it's near impossible > to kill dial-in spammers, except to have their accounts revoked of > course.
DUL is very effective in doing that. it prevents spammers from hiding their activities from their ISP...which ensures that they will be caught and their account nuked very promptly. the ISP has a vested interest in taking an active role in preventing spam - if they don't then they will be blacklisted by one of the RBLs (e.g. MAPS RBL) for being a spamhaus. that's the medium-term indirect effect of DUL...the immediately beneficial direct effect is that spam from dialup users is blocked by anyone who makes use of the DUL. > Blocking the IPs is really stupid and ineffective and whoever thought > of that bright idea should be given a very big Clue. no, it's very effective and the people who thought of it have an enormous clue. what it does is prevent spammers from sending their junk directly...this forces them to use their ISP's mail server, thus increasing the effectiveness of the MAPS RBL because it forces the ISP to take responsibility for their users' actions - it takes away their option to bullshit and say "nothing to do with me, i only provide dialup service". most users don't even have the option of sending their mail directly because they are windows or mac dialup users and their mail client insists on using a relay host. so DUL doesn't affect them at all. the tiny percentage of unix users who have a real MTA can, and should, use a legitimate mail relay (or uucp-over-tcp or smtp-over-ssh or one of the many other alternatives). these are also the people who are technically skilled enough to do so - and if they are not skilled enough then they should not be running a mail server on the open internet anyway...novice mail admins are the bane of real mail admins everywhere, their fuckups cause problems all over the net (not the least of which is that novice mail admins often run open relays through ignorance or indifference to the spam problem) > This however also means it's different enough from ORBS that I completely > fail to see how people can throw them in together. you are right, DUL & ORBS are quite different services. only joseph is enough of a moron to equate the two. craig -- craig sanders
