On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 09:55:44AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: > Hleb Valoshka <375...@gmail.com> writes: > > > Please introduce official nosystemd build profile so downstream > > distributions can send patches to package maintainers with systemd-less > > build instead of keep them in home. > > If this is about avoiding linking with libsystemd, I think this is > unbelievably silly and a completely waste of maintainer time and emotional > energy.
Yeah -- and, unlike most people in this thread, I do maintain a repository which does that: deb https://angband.pl/debian nosystemd-buster main deb-src https://angband.pl/debian nosystemd-buster main (instructions and key at https://angband.pl/deb/archive.html) The only reason to avoid libsystemd0 is a cheap way to make sure systemd paths are not used; some packages (I forgot which) have regressions when compiled with systemd support as they detect its presence at compile time rather than runtime. > I'm one of the people who has been advocating for continuing to support > systems without systemd running. I think that's both meaningful and > important. Avoiding linking with a shared library that does nothing when > systemd is not running is neither meaningful nor important. Please do not > squander other people's good will on trivia like this. While libsystemd0 is indeed harmless, there are cases where such a build profile would be worthwhile: * utopia stack (policykit and friends) which have a hard dependency on systemd * dependencies on libpam-systemd (including "mere" Recommends, which make apt force an init switch or abort an upgrade without a workaround obvious to an user who doesn't know what to look for) On the other hand, rebuilding with a build profile is useful only for derivatives. What about looking for a solution that would help users of unmodified Debian instead? -shim is moribund (and never worked right even when it was maintained), thus installing it on systems with modular inits is damage. I believe this is the problem that should be solved first -- because all non-trivial cases mentioned above use logind or an equivalent, and to implement a profile you need to know what alternate dependency to use. The name I hear the most is elogind, but other options also get mentioned. It'd be good if someone more knowledgeable could say more; I think multiple Debian derivatives are experimenting here. Once such a solution is chosen, implemented and tested, only then it'll be time to fix dependencies -- inside Debian rather than some derivative. Meow! -- // If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory prices.
