Guys, I really do NOT want to start a flame war, I know that you guys are tired about this "init" subject appearing over and over... But, my turn... :-P
*First things first: Why I'm with Debian / Ubuntu?* A.: Because *I like the work of Debian Maintainers* (you guys and gals, sirs and madams), about how Debian *compiles and packages* *every single piece of open source software out there* (i.e., its `configure ; make ; make install` from `debian/rules`, I love it). I really don't care that much about what init system I have (I'm using upstart and sysvinit these days, never used systemd - it IS too unstable (I tried it without success, lots of bugs popped everywhere when with systemd), invasive and dangerous to our comunity project (a.k.a. Debian))... But please, guys, DO NOT LOSE "*DEBIAN COMPILATION*"!! I mean, when I read that infamous guy, Poettering, talking about things like this: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html It creeps the hell outta me! Specially this: "...This greatly simplifies application installation, as there's no dependency hell..." - Poettring. So, this guy uses a RPM-based distro, called RedHat/CentOS/Fedora, right?! I feel sorry for him... Poor guy... Only that crap-distro(s) have a "dependency hell", not our shiny Debian. I don't know what that guy is talking about, honestly (well, no, I know - rpm+yum sucks). =P Anyway, I see that there is room for improvements on software installing and updating (binary diffs, cow and etc?) but, wait, systemd instead of dpkg/apt?! I thought this thing was supposed to replace ONLY the init system, nothing more, neither udev (already engulfed)... So, is systemd even trying to replace dpkg+apt too? Come guys... For real?! *Please, do not let this to happen here! Do not lose "Debian Compilation", and packaging, do not lose "[dpkg / apt] / debian/rules", for systemd!* *Also, do not lose `dpkg-buildpackage` for "systemd-buildpackage"!!* This systemd thing *has already gone too far*. Keep systemd at its bare minimum level... Do not let it take over the whole distro. Honestly, I don't fear systemd itself, or binary logs... I fear things like this: Linux Kernel Developers Fed Up With Ridiculous Bugs In Systemd: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTY1MzA Linux systemd dev says open source is 'SICK', kernel community 'awful': http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/06/poettering_says_linux_kernel_community_is_hostil/ So, lets move on over this systemd thing, *keep it at its bare minimum level...* I'm fine with a new init system, our current state of technology allows us to do that, something like systemd (I like its ideas, but don't like its "Mr. Knowitall" implementation, *it looks really ugly and bloated*), nevertheless, I'll try it later, maybe on 2016~2020, if it proves itself really stable (i.e., a nonissue in the near future) AND upstream developers change their attitude / behavior on bug handling, etc... Please guys, don't take me wrong (no flame wars okay?!)... I'm just concerned about the preservation of our amazing Linux/kFreeBSD distro! Keeping `sysvinit-core` in Debian 8 (9, 10...) *at a reliable level* *is a wise thing to do*. Just in case... (I don't trust RedHat neither the Corporatocracy). So! Let the men write their own init scripts powered by `sysvinit-core` for a long time ahead! Don't throw this away! Also, keep kfreebsd flavor for how long as possible (*without systemd things*, of course)! On Linux, it is fine to have systemd installed and around (like systemd-udev, logind0 and etc) but, sysvinit is important (even upstart is), do not lose it... BTW, *during Debian 8 installation, please, provide a (d-i, tasksel, alternatives, whatever) interface for selecting the initsystem*, *this is important!* I know that it seems pretty easy to just run "apt-get install sysvinit-core" (or preseed it) (to get rid of systemd as init) after the installation but, if that [initsystem selection] option appear (during the installation), *this will make Debian even stronger*, as the only distro that provides, at least, two (sysvinit|systemd) reliable init systems. *How cool is that?!* Also, without an interface for selecting an init system on Jessie, *the popularity contest becomes unfair*. Honestly, I would like to wake up from this systemd nightmare. I'm seeing that there is demand for a brand new Linux distribution, that will sit right in the middle of Debian and Slackware... Something like a Debian fork without DBus, systemd and PAM, but still with dpkg/apt "d-i" and lots of packages. Lets do it?! Lets fork Debian and remove systemd, dbus and pam out from it?! The fork `uselessd` (or a new udev) becomes more and more a necessity. Just for the record, today is the first day that I tested systemd, then, systemd-journal consumed 100% of my CPU (plus rsyslog), something related to GPM and, "ecryptfs" does not umount my home dir anymore, after logout... Is it a systemd problem? How can I know? It is very hard to locate the bugs with systemd sitting in the middle of everything... I'm sure (more feelings than anything else, I know) that systemd is the wrong path to follow. For the sake of safety, we need `sysvinit-core` (and upstart) for at least, ~2020. *We need to keep `sysvinit-core` in Debian*, *no matter what*, even with systemd around (as systemd-udev|logind)! Who am I? I'm this guy drinking a *Caipirinha* (and beer) with Linus and Maddog: *https://plus.google.com/u/0/115739596284445583455/posts/QeouEFWn1uv?pid=6068085002334586770&oid=115739596284445583455 <https://plus.google.com/u/0/115739596284445583455/posts/QeouEFWn1uv?pid=6068085002334586770&oid=115739596284445583455>* :-D Cheers! Thiago
