[Please, reply/discuss <flame> .. </flame> separate thread.]
Introduction ============ Lots of package seems to have some kind of dependency on "menu" which aren't needed/useful. Therefore, removing the "menu" package on a given system isn't always possible. Also, many packages seems depends, recommends or suggests on the menu package, even though the dependency isn't useful. Intended Mass bug filling ========================= I intend to submit a mass bug filling to ask packages maintainer to drop or downgrade their dependency on "menu": * If the package merely provides a menu entry (in /usr/share/menu/), then any dependency on the menu package can and should be removed. * Packages that actually "consume" menu information can and should depend on the package menu in some way. <flame> A program (window manager...) that presents a menu to the user should have a "depends" on menu if "Debian Menu" is the only menu system it supports. If the program has a different preferred menu (typically the XDG menu), then the dependency should be downgraded to recommend or suggest. (see the note below regarding meta package) </flame> Meta packages that depend on "menu" are beyond the scope of this mail because they often aim to provide a complete user environment. (still, do consider that some user may want to uninstall "menu"). Alternatively, a Lintian test might test could be used. After analyzing the package depending on menu (see below), I can to the non-authoritative and unadvised conclusion that only the packages using the menu (i.e providing a file in /etc/menu-methods/) and a very few meta package can reasonably depend / recommend / suggest) on menu. Rational ======== IMHO, only applications that use the content of menu entries (the files in /usr/share/menu/... like the window managers, panels..) should declare a dependency. Package that merely provides a file in /usr/share/menu/ should not declare a dependency menu. The rational is that it makes no difference whether the "menu" package is installed or not... if the user's "window manager" don't use those menu entries. Also, most people [me] look for a program in only one place (menu). Having two menu side by side was useful for transition, but nowadays it probably seems awkward to many end-users. <flame>(not to mention that some people may blame Debian for not adopting open standards).</flame> [The list below were made on a debian-testing :-/ ] Specious "depends" relationship [AFAICT]: backintime-gnome - GNOME front-end for backintime backintime-kde - KDE front-end for backintime bleachbit - delete unnecessary files from the system btnx-config - graphical user interface for btnx bum - graphical runlevel editor disk-manager - simple graphical filesystem configurator firestarter - GTK program for managing and observing your firewall gadmin-bind - GTK+ configuration tool for bind9 gadmin-openvpn-client - GTK+ configuration tool for openvpn (client) gadmin-openvpn-server - GTK+ configuration tool for openvpn (server) gadmin-proftpd - GTK+ configuration tool for proftpd gadmin-rsync - GTK+ configuration tool for rsync gadmin-samba - GTK+ configuration tool for samba grub-choose-default - Control Grub Default through a GUI gsmartcontrol - graphical user interface for smartctl gsql - Integrated database development tool for GNOME gtkorphan - A graphical tool to find and remove orphaned libraries kvpnc - vpn clients frontend for KDE4 luckybackup - rsync-based GUI data backup utility ndisgtk - graphical frontend for ndiswrapper (installation of Wind rutilt - Configuration tool for rt2x00 wireless network cards startupmanager - Grub, Usplash and Splash screen configuration system-config-audit - Graphical utility for editing audit configuration system-config-cluster - graphical configuration and management tool for Red Hat system-config-lvm - A utility for graphically configuring Logical Volumes wifi-radar - graphical utility for managing Wi-Fi profiles xball - Simulate bouncing balls in a window Legitimate "depends" [AFAICT]: afterstep - window manager with the NEXTSTEP look and feel awesome - highly configurable, next generation framework window ma fluxbox - Highly configurable and low resource X11 Window manager motif-clients - Open Motif - X11 clients (mwm, xmbind) pekwm - very light window manager twm - Tab window manager junior-config - Debian Jr. Project common package blends-common - Debian Pure Blends common package science-config - Debian Science Project config package task-desktop - Debian desktop environment med-config - Debian Med general config package Specious "recommends" relationship [AFAICT]: dkms - Dynamic Kernel Module Support Framework etherape - graphical network monitor keytouch-editor - create keyboard files for keytouch lynis - security auditing tool for Unix based systems ratpoison - keyboard-only window manager torcs - 3D racing cars simulator game using OpenGL wpagui - graphical user interface for wpa_supplicant Legitimate "recommends" [AFAICT]: choosewm - fake x-session-manager allowing the user to choose a wm education-desktop-kde - Debian Edu KDE desktop applications flwm - Fast Light Window Manager icewm-common - wonderful Win95-OS/2-Motif-like window manager menu-xdg - freedesktop.org menu compliant window manager scripts Specious "suggests" relationship [AFAICT]: bbmail - Mail notifier for Blackbox/Fluxbox doc-linux-html - Linux HOWTOs and FAQs in HTML format doc-linux-ja-html - Linux HOWTOs and FAQs in Japanese (HTML format) doc-linux-nonfree-htm - Linux HOWTOs in HTML format (non-free) fish - a friendly interactive shell fityk - general-purpose nonlinear curve fitting and data analysi genesis - general-purpose neural simulator geneweb - genealogy software with web interface libreoffice - office productivity suite lyx - document processor mhc-utils - command line/GUI utilities for the MHC schedule manageme mirage - fast and simple GTK+ image viewer rio - A command line Diamond Rio MP3 player controller rox-filer - A simple graphical file manager for X11 sopwith - port of the 1980's side-scrolling WWI dogfighting game synaptic - Graphical package manager trayer - Lightweight GTK2-based systray for UNIX desktop tucnak2 - VHF/UHF/SHF Hamradio contest log version 2 tuxeyes - a fancy version of xeyes upgrade-system - system upgrader from Funkyware and Konflux w3m - WWW browsable pager with excellent tables/frames support wings3d - Nendo-inspired 3D polygon mesh modeller xiterm+thai - X terminal program with Thai languague support xmahjongg - tile-based solitaire game xvt - X terminal-emulator similar to xterm, but smaller Legitimate "suggest" [AFAICT]: aewm - minimalist window manager for X11 blackbox - Window manager for X deskmenu - A root menu for X11 window managers fbpanel - lightweight X11 desktop panel fvwm - F(?) Virtual Window Manager fvwm-crystal - Pretty Desktop Environment based on fvwm fvwm1 - Old version of the F(?) Virtual Window Manager jwm - very small lightweight pure X11 window manager with tray lxpanel - lightweight desktop panel for X olvwm - OpenLook virtual window manager olwm - Open Look Window Manager openbox - standards compliant, fast, light-weight, extensible wind pdmenu - simple console menu program ratmenu - Creates X menus from the shell sapphire - A minimal but configurable X11R6 window manager sawfish - a window manager for X11 stumpwm - tiling, keyboard driven Common Lisp window manager wmaker - NeXTSTEP-like window manager for X wmanager - window-manager selection tool used at X startup xfdesktop4 - xfce desktop background, icons and root menu manager Among all the packages that depends, recommend or suggest on 'menu', I have listed if one either provide a menu entry (/usr/share/menu/) in or use the menu (/etc/menu-methods/). +-----------------------+-------+--------+------------+ |Package name |provide| use* | Dependency | +-----------------------+-------+--------+------------+ = |aewm | entry | method | suggests | = |afterstep | entry | - | depends | => ? = |awesome | entry | method | depends | 0 |backintime-gnome | - | - | depends | 0 |backintime-kde | - | - | depends | 0 |bbmail | - | - | suggests | = |blackbox | entry | method | suggests | 0 |bleachbit | entry | - | depends | ~ |blends-common | entry | - | depends | => ? 0 |btnx-config | - | - | depends | 0 |bum | - | - | depends | = |choosewm | entry | method | recommends | = |deskmenu | - | method | suggests | 0 |disk-manager | entry | - | depends | 0 |dkms | - | - | recommends | 0 |doc-linux-html | - | - | suggests | 0 |doc-linux-ja-html | - | - | suggests | 0 |doc-linux-nonfree-htm | - | - | ? | = |education-desktop-kde | - | - | recommends | 0 |etherape | entry | - | recommends | = |fbpanel | entry | - | suggests | 0 |firestarter | entry | - | depends | 0 |fish | entry | - | suggests | 0 |fityk | entry | - | suggests | = |fluxbox | entry | method | depends | = |flwm | entry | method | recommends | = |fvwm1 | entry | method | suggests | = |fvwm-crystal | - | method | suggests | = |fvwm | entry | method | suggests | 0 |gadmin-bind | entry | - | depends | 0 |gadmin-openvpn-client | entry | - | depends | 0 |gadmin-openvpn-server | entry | - | depends | 0 |gadmin-proftpd | entry | - | depends | 0 |gadmin-rsync | entry | - | depends | 0 |gadmin-samba | entry | - | depends | 0 |genesis | entry | - | suggests | 0 |geneweb | entry | - | suggests | 0 |grub-choose-default | entry | - | depends | 0 |gsmartcontrol | entry | - | depends | 0 |gsql | entry | - | depends | 0 |gtkorphan | - | - | depends | = |icewm-common | - | method | recommends | ~ |junior-config | - | - | depends | = |jwm | entry | method | suggests | 0 |keytouch-editor | entry | - | recommends | 0 |kvpnc | entry | - | depends | 0 |libreoffice | - | - | suggests | 0 |luckybackup | entry | - | depends | = |lxpanel | - | - | suggests | 0 |lynis | entry | - | recommends | 0 |lyx | entry | - | suggests | ~ |med-config | - | - | depends | = |menu-xdg | - | method | recommends | 0 |mhc-utils | entry | - | suggests | 0 |mirage | entry | - | suggests | = |motif-clients | - | method | depends | 0 |ndisgtk | entry | - | depends | = |olvwm | entry | method | suggests | = |olwm | entry | method | suggests | = |openbox | entry | method | suggests | = |pdmenu | entry | method | suggests | = |pekwm | entry | method | depends | = |ratmenu | - | method | suggests | 0 |ratpoison | entry | method | recommends | 0 |rio | entry | - | suggests | 0 |rox-filer | entry | - | suggests | 0 |rutilt | entry | - | depends | = |sapphire | entry | method | suggests | = |sawfish | entry | method | suggests | ~ |science-config | - | - | depends | 0 |sopwith | entry | - | suggests | 0 |startupmanager | entry | - | depends | = |stumpwm | entry | - | suggests | 0 |synaptic | entry | - | suggests | 0 |system-config-audit | - | - | depends | 0 |system-config-cluster | - | - | depends | 0 |system-config-lvm | - | - | depends | ~ |task-desktop | - | - | depends | 0 |torcs | entry | - | recommends | 0 |trayer | - | - | suggests | 0 |tucnak2 | entry | - | suggests | 0 |tuxeyes | entry | - | suggests | = |twm | entry | method | depends | 0 |upgrade-system | - | - | suggests | 0 |w3m | entry | - | suggests | 0 |wifi-radar | entry | - | depends | 0 |wings3d | entry | - | suggests | = |wmaker | entry | method | suggests | = |wmanager | - | method | suggests | 0 |wpagui | entry | - | recommends | 0 |xball | entry | - | depends | = |xfdesktop4 | entry | - | suggests | 0 |xiterm+thai | entry | - | suggests | 0 |xmahjongg | entry | - | suggests | 0 |xvt | entry | - | suggests | +-----------------------+-------+--------+------------+ Legend: Provide: The package provide a file in /usr/share/menu/ Use: The package provide a file in /etc/menu-methods/ Depends: type of dependency on on menu package. My Flags: 0 : Remove any dependency [AFAICT] = : Don't chage anything [AFAICT] ~ : Consider switching from depends to recommends Laszlo Boszormenyi (GCS) <g...@debian.hu> tuxeyes Cosimo Alfarano <ka...@debian.org> blends (U) Ben Armstrong <sy...@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca> debian-junior (U) Romain Beauxis <to...@rastageeks.org> rutilt (U) Stephen Birch <sgbi...@imsmail.org> xball Fathi Boudra <f...@debian.org> kvpnc (U) Kjell Braden <fn...@pentabarf.de> grub-choose-default Francisco Manuel Garcia Claramonte <franci...@debian.org> lynis Kevin Coyner <kcoy...@debian.org> bbmail Paul Cupis <p...@cupis.co.uk> firestarter Luke Cycon <lcy...@gmail.com> keytouch-editor HIGUCHI Daisuke <deb...@vdr.jp> w3m (U) Debian Erlang Packagers <pkg-erlang-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org> wings3d Debian Games Team <pkg-games-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org> xmahjongg Debian Hamradio Maintainers <debian-h...@lists.debian.org> tucnak2 Debian Install System Team <debian-b...@lists.debian.org> tasksel Debian Junior <debian...@lists.debian.org> debian-junior Debian KDE Extras Team <pkg-kde-ext...@lists.alioth.debian.org> kvpnc Debian LDP Maintainers <pkg-doc-linux-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org> doc-linux Debian LibreOffice Maintainers <debian-openoff...@lists.debian.org> libreoffice Debian LyX Maintainers <pkg-lyx-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org> lyx Debian Med Packaging Team <debian-med-packag...@lists.alioth.debian.org> debian-med Debian Pure Blend Team <debian-ble...@lists.debian.org> blends Debian Ralink packages maintainers <pkg-ralink-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org> rutilt Debian Science Team <debian-science-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org> debian-science Debian/Ubuntu wpasupplicant Maintainers <pkg-wpa-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org> wpasupplicant Dynamic Kernel Modules Support Team <pkg-dkms-ma...@lists.alioth.debian.org> dkms Rene Engelhard <r...@debian.org> libreoffice (U) Luca Falavigna <dktrkr...@debian.org> bleachbit Rudy Godoy <r...@debian.org> torcs Sergei Golovan <sgolo...@debian.org> wings3d (U) Federico Di Gregorio <f...@debian.org> bum (U) Debian QA Group <packa...@qa.debian.org> gadmin-bind gadmin-openvpn-client gadmin-openvpn-server gadmin-samba Philipp Matthias Hahn <pmh...@debian.org> audit Joey Hess <jo...@debian.org> tasksel (U) Sven Hoexter <hoex...@debian.org> lyx (U) Philipp Huebner <debala...@debian.org> btnx-config system-config-cluster system-config-lvm Ben Hutchings <b...@decadent.org.uk> rutilt (U) Giuseppe Iuculano <iucul...@debian.org> dkms (U) gsmartcontrol Aurelien Jarno <aure...@debian.org> rutilt (U) Tatsuya Kinoshita <t...@debian.org> mhc w3m Julian Andres Klode <j...@debian.org> ndisgtk Sylvestre Ledru <sylves...@debian.org> debian-science (U) Frederic Daniel Luc Lehobey <frede...@lehobey.net> debian-science (U) Frank Lichtenheld <dj...@debian.org> doc-linux (U) Mario Limonciello <mario_limoncie...@dell.com> dkms (U) Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org> ratpoison Stefan Lippers-Hollmann <s....@gmx.de> wpasupplicant (U) Francesco Paolo Lovergine <fran...@debian.org> rox Fabio Marzocca <thesalty...@gmail.com> bum gtkorphan GOTO Masanori <go...@debian.org> doc-linux-ja Patrick Matthäi <pmatth...@debian.org> luckybackup Kel Modderman <k...@otaku42.de> wpasupplicant (U) Hamish Moffatt <ham...@debian.org> tucnak2 (U) Vince Mulhollon <v...@debian.org> rio Per Olofsson <pe...@debian.org> lyx (U) Xavier Oswald <xosw...@debian.org> mirage Patrick Ouellette <poue...@debian.org> tucnak2 (U) Sam Hocevar (Debian packages) <sam+...@zoy.org> genesis xvt David Paleino <da...@debian.org> disk-manager dkms (U) Peter Pentchev <r...@ringlet.net> xmahjongg (U) Christian Perrier <bubu...@debian.org> geneweb Frederic Peters <fpet...@debian.org> etherape Estêvão Samuel Procópio <tev...@gmail.com> gsql Kenneth J. Pronovici <prono...@debian.org> sopwith Mark Purcell <m...@debian.org> kvpnc (U) Python Applications Packaging Team <python-apps-t...@lists.alioth.debian.org> bleachbit (U) startupmanager Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.rac...@iki.fi> upgrade-system Petter Reinholdtsen <p...@debian.org> blends (U) Jaime Robles <ja...@debian.org> tucnak2 (U) Marco Rodrigues <goth...@sapo.pt> startupmanager (U) José L. Redrejo Rodríguez <jredr...@debian.org> blends (U) Otavio Salvador <ota...@debian.org> tasksel (U) Jens Peter Secher <j...@debian.org> trayer Carlo Segre <se...@debian.org> fityk Gustavo Noronha Silva <k...@debian.org> fish Jonas Smedegaard <d...@jones.dk> blends (U) Neutron Soutmun <neo.neut...@gmail.com> xiterm+thai Mahyuddin Susanto <udi...@ubuntu.com> gadmin-proftpd gadmin-rsync Andreas Tille <ti...@debian.org> blends (U) debian-junior (U) debian-med (U) debian-science (U) Cesare Tirabassi <norse...@ubuntu.com> rutilt (U) Michael Vogt <m...@debian.org> synaptic Colin Watson <cjwat...@debian.org> doc-linux (U) Jonathan Wiltshire <j...@debian.org> backintime Patrick Winnertz <win...@debian.org> wifi-radar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/43859.1319914...@klabs.be
