martin f krafft asks, > Obviously, for reasons unknown to the mere mortals, > the above only applies to topics of the mere mortals > of Debian, not to certain members of the cabal. Some > vital components of the Debian project are better kept > away from the public, or they could be flooded with > opinions or suggestions for improvement, or even > <gasp> help (ftpmasters, are you listening?).
AJ Towns replies, > Yes. If we weren't we might wake up one day and > mistakenly think it might be possible to have > discussions on Debian lists that didn't involve > gratuitous insults. AJ, having respect for and deference to your inestimable Debian work, nevertheless I object. When have you ever seen Martin F. Krafft gratuitously insult anyone? Has he not earned the benefit of the doubt? It is hard to imagine someone so passionate about Debian who habitually tries so hard to avoid insult, as Martin F. Krafft. Martin's valid question stands. Someone has advised Martin to plan his APT work in the full glare of the lists. Whether this is good advice to Martin, I do not know; but all Martin wants to know is, if the advice is good for the APT team, then why not for ftpmaster? It is a fair question, asked by many others on this list in various ways, and never really answered in my opinion. I have never asked the question but respectfully I do so now. Why can so many DDs apparently not determine to their satisfaction why and how ftpmaster works, or what they can do to help when ftpmaster seems broken? Are these DDs somehow delinquent? Do they need to RTFM? Are they as children, who just do not understand? But how can they understand what has so long been hidden? Are they unreasonable to expect gentle illumination, moderate collegiality, and some ongoing public engagement? Are they actually getting these things, only they don't realize it? On the other hand, does ftpmaster feel besieged? Is the problem that Debian development is too open, too undisciplined for practical collegiality? Yet the release team answer questions publicly: not everyone agrees with everything they do, but few seem to wonder what dark secrets they keep. And when you, AJ, served as release manager, did you ever raise a tangled hedge to keep information in and eyes and voices out? I do not think that you did. The same can be said of the dpkg and installer teams: at least they converse. What is this shroud which hides ftpmaster? It may be observed that there has recently been good progress on the DAM front, and this is true. However, the question was about ftpmaster not the DAM. Either the two are separate roles or they are not. The matter can be debated under either premise, but either way, similar questions arise. It is doubtful whether anyone can do much useful work in the continuous, full glare of general public scrutiny. This is admitted. It is also admitted that anything ftpmaster publishes about its internal works invites unsettling, perhaps even unwarranted criticism, costing ftpmaster patience and time---and even opening the possibility of a direct challenge: "I can do ftpmaster's job better. Watch." However, the body of DDs are not the general public, and Martin has never asked for hot spotlights to focus on every tiny ftpmaster move. He has asked: if gentle illumination and moderate transparency matter in APT work, then how much more so in ftpmaster work? If the question in any of its several forms is found insulting by some, I hope that they will pardon Martin, me, and the several others who have asked it. (Certainly it would be extremely easy to punish me, who after nearly three years of Debian development am soon to go for final DAM review.) I intend no more insult than Martin does. Not a DD, I have earned no right to demand an answer; but it were cowardice to leave Martin standing alone today, and I would respectfully request an answer nevertheless. -- Thaddeus H. Black 508 Nellie's Cave Road Blacksburg, Virginia 24060, USA +1 540 961 0920, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I would quietly ask that this post not be referenced in the Weekly News. The Weekly News is great and has the honorable right to reference anything it sees fit. Personally I do not mind either way. However, if mention in the Weekly News tempted a certain non-Debian forum to open a clueless thread on the topic, then I am not sure what good purpose it would serve. Anyone who is really interested can read about it here. This is all.)
pgpWjjjTVsuAc.pgp
Description: PGP signature
