On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 11:19:44AM +0200, Bernhard R. Link wrote: > * Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030529 22:40]: > > Yes, it is our task to make it *consistent*. It shouldn't be our task > > to write menu entries from scratch, when upstreams can (and are) taking > > on the task. Our menu system should accept .desktop files, and ideally > > process them natively. > > I think making things consistent needs us to write them on our own, > taking upstream entries as suggestions. In my eyes it is just the same > as with the directories software is installed into. There are just too > many ways to do it and we do not serve our users well to let them all in.
I'll let you learn all the languages of the world so that we can throw away upstreams fully i18n menu entries... > > Of course it would be nice to have things on places, where users know > them, but without an consistent concept overall, there is no use to it. > (Last time I looked we did not put KDE in /opt, though that might have > things much easier and I'm sure many people were expecting it there...) Its Debian that is being inconsistent... > > The next step is to migrate to the Desktop Menu Specification. This is > > still in the process of being adopted by GNOME and KDE. We will need to > > rewrite our menu-methods to process the .menu files. > > The menu-methods are there to generate the menus for the menu-providers, > to parse whatever format is the menu-entries is update-menus' task. > It would be nice to make menu-methods to generate .menu files easier. > I think making update-menus able to parse files in dektop menu > specification will only cause such files beeing included without > inspection by newbies. I do not understand this statement. Why would newbies inspect desktop entries to begin with... > > After that, our user experience with popular desktops should be much > > more consistent, > > As adminstrator of some systems with many users, I'd prefer if this > broken KDE could at least be packaged with hints how to get rid of > its broken menu and a debian menu pluged in instead. (I've long given > up hope to get a useful menu in it by default, I know its KDEs > philosophie to not integrate but creating a world of its own. But at > least the debian packages could provide some information how to get > some minimal usability in it). It is Debian that is broken since it does not follow the desktop menu specification. Both GNOME and KDE follow it and will soon have integrated menus, only Debian stuff will then be outside of the menu. >From the desktop spec it appears that both XFCE and ROX support it as well but I haven't run them before. > > and it will be less work to integrate new software into > > Debian (since upstreams will be adopting .desktop), > > There a many things, that make proper packaging of software a > complex matter. Writing this single line to get a menu-item > should really no problem. And if it was I really doubt the > person involved was competent enough to look in the .desktop-file > if it is reasonable... Now it becomes obvious you did not look at any .desktop files either... slashdot is dooming us all. A single Debian Developer _CAN NOT_ write decent menu entries _period_. See the attached konqueror desktop file, notice it has translations for 57 languages. Also notice Debian does good to get translations for debconf entries for more than 1 language, and thats only after someone decides to submit bug reports (in other words takes a long time). > > and other > > distributors will benefit from the .desktop files Debian developers > > write. > > This makes a shoe out if it. Debian is *much* more than KDE and GNOME, > using .dektop will in the long run cause masses of people learn a new > format and in order to get a coherent understandable system need rewrite > of masses of old Debian people SHOULD NOT be writing the menu entries. And it is trivial to learn if a DD does want to submit a skeleton one to their upstream. As I already said above a menu entry written by only one person is of little value since it will have no or very little i18n support. > > A Debian-specific menu system is the entirely wrong way to go. > > A working menu is a good way to go. The currest system works and has > many nice aspects of configurability and administrability, missing in > the newer parts. Only thing I see missing are KDE packages obeying > menu policy. The current system is limping along and needs to be shot. KDE obeys menu policy just fine (afaik) it has stupid i18n-less debian menu entries but when used in KDE itself it uses its fully i18n'd .desktop files just like GNOME. Chris PS - Next time try to learn about a system before showing you don't understand the issues at all.
[Desktop Entry] Encoding=UTF-8 Type=Application Exec=kfmclient openProfile webbrowsing Icon=konqueror DocPath=konqueror/index.html Name=Konqueror Web Browser Name[af]=Konqueror Web Blaaier Name[az]=Konqueror Veb Səyyahı Name[bg]=WWW-броузер Konqueror Name[br]=Furcher Gwiad Konqueror Name[bs]=Konqueror web preglednik Name[ca]=Fullejador Web Konqueror Name[cs]=Internetový prohlížeč Konqueror Name[da]=Konqueror Netsøger Name[de]=Web-Browser Konqueror Name[el]=Περιηγητής Konqueror Name[eo]=Tuttera Teksaĵo Name[es]=Navegador Web Konqueror Name[et]=Veebibrauser Konqueror Name[eu]=Konqueror Web Arakatzailea Name[fa]=مرورگر شبکهی کانکرر Name[fi]=Konqueror WWW-selain Name[fr]=Konqueror (navigateur Web) Name[gl]=Navegador Web Konqueror Name[he]=דפדפן האינטרנט Konqueror Name[hr]=Konquerer web preglednik Name[hu]=Konqueror webböngésző Name[id]=Browser web Konqueror Name[is]=Konqueror vafrari Name[it]=Browser Web Konqueror Name[ja]=Konqueror ウェブブラウザ Name[ko]=컹커러 웹 탐색기 Name[lo]=ເວ໊ບບາວເຊີ Konqueror Name[lt]=Konqueror Žiniatinklio naršyklė Name[lv]=Iekarotājs Web Pārlūks Name[mk]=Прелистувачот Konqueror Name[mt]=Web Browser Konqueror Name[nb]=Konqueror nettleser Name[nl]=Konqueror Webbrowser Name[nn]=Nettlesaren Konqueror Name[nso]=Seinyakisi sa Web ya Konqueror Name[oc]=Navigador Web Konqueror Name[pl]=Przeglądarka Konqueror Name[pt]=Navegador Konqueror Name[pt_BR]=Navegador Web Konqueror Name[ro]=Navigator de web Konqueror Name[ru]=Веб-браузер Konqueror Name[se]=Fierpmádatlogan Konqueror Name[sk]=Web priehliadač Konqueror Name[sl]=Brskalnik Konqueror Name[sr]=Konqueror Web čitač Name[sv]=Webbläsaren Konqueror Name[ta]=¸¡ý¦¸¡Ã÷ Å¨Ä ¯Ä¡Å¢ Name[th]=เว็บบราวเซอร์ Konqueror Name[tr]=Konqueror Web Tarayıcı Name[uk]=Навігатор Тенет 'Konqueror' Name[ven]=WEbe buraunza ya Konqueror Name[vi]=Trình duyệt web Konqueror Name[xh]=Umkhangeli zincwadi we Konqueror Web Name[zh_CN]=Konqueror Web 浏览器 Name[zh_TW]=Konqueror 網頁瀏覽器 Name[zu]=Umcingi we-web we-Konqueror
