On Tue, Nov 04, 2014 at 08:17:52PM +0100, Christian Seiler wrote: > Am 04.11.2014 17:07, schrieb Josh Triplett: > > This isn't a complete showstopper, since most of the time people seem to > > debootstrap a standard system and then install additional packages. > > However, it would affect a debootstrap with --include=task-desktop or > > --include=gnome or similar. > > Just as a side note: I never use debootstrap to actually include > anything that wouldn't be considered 'base system', just because I've > had the experience that quite a few packages don't work together with > debootstrap (try doing --include=syslog-ng (and --exclude=rsyslog) while > debootstrapping wheezy - the dependency resolution works properly, but > the package won't install, because the preinst or postinst scripts don't > like debootstrap's environment (the rsyslog exclude alone works btw., so > that's what I'm doing if I want something with syslog-ng)). I have some > real doubts that debootstrap is going to be able to set up something > like GNOME or task-desktop or whatever, just because they probably are > going to pull in lots of packages of which at least a couple are going > to have similar problems to the aforementioned one I had with syslog-ng. > > Therefore, I always tend to use debootstrap to just install a very, very > basic system and then use apt-get in a chroot to install the rest of the > software, if I decide to install a Debian image like that. > > This in mind, looking at apt-cache rdepends libpam-systemd[1], I don't > see anything in there I'd want to include in debootstrap. But maybe > that's just me.
No, I agree with you; it doesn't seem excessively problematic by itself, and it may or may not actually be a good argument against the proposed resolution. > > Does anyone see an obvious way to structure the dependencies to avoid > > this result and only install systemd-sysv? > > I don't think that's possible if you want to keep the effect the > switching the dependencies has (i.e. selecting systemd-shim as first > alternative so that systems without systemd as pid1 don't try to install > systemd-sysv when packages depending on logind are installed). Well, one obvious approach: make either systemd-shim or cgmanager "Conflicts: systemd-sysv". However, that seems overly harsh, and breaks the case of booting an alternate init system via the init= command-line argument. > >> I haven't tested the upgrade scenario. > > > > I appreciate the test you already ran. I'd love to see an upgrade test > > as well (from a system with sysvinit installed), but this test already > > revealed an issue. > > - Fresh install of Debian Wheezy (from netinst CD) > - tasksel: Standard utilities + SSH server > - aptitude full-upgrade > - aptitude install --without-recommends gdm3 > (package that pulls in libpam-systemd in Jessie, without > installing too much, although gdm3 itself already pulls in > quite a lot on wheezy, in hindsight probably should have gone > with network-manager...) > - Then edit sources.list, remove everything wheezy-related, add my > modified mirror, apt-get update > > Then this gives the following consequences: > > - apt-get upgrade: > * doesn't try to upgrade enough packages that you could call > the system jessie, doesn't pull in anything systemd related > other than trying to upgrade libsystemd-login0 (already > installed on wheezy because of a Depends of dbus) > - apt-get dist-upgrade > * pulls in systemd-shim > - aptitude full-upgrade > * pulls in systemd-shim > - aptitude upgrade (i.e. safe-upgrade) > * takes a couple of minutes to resolve deps > (granted, running in a VM, but I have a fast CPU, so > this is really unusual, never seen aptitude working so > long before, but OTOH I've never done a dist-upgrade > with aptitude before, so maybe that's normal?) > * DOES NOT pull in systemd-shim > - didn't test any other frontends Well, ugh. Bad apt, no biscuit. This seems much more problematic to me. I *expected* apt to say "well I need to install the Essential init package, which pulls in systemd-sysv, which satisfies libpam-systemd". But apparently apt resolved all the dependencies simultaneously and ignored alternative dependencies. (Presumably if you had systemd-sysv installed in wheezy this wouldn't happen, but that's not an interesting case, nor does it need this kind of test to confirm that.) I wouldn't necessarily suggest using this as an argument against the proposed resolution. Instead, I'd recommend making sure that cgmanager is just as harmless under systemd as systemd-shim 8-4 currently is, by making it not run under systemd. That would make this change much safer. > PS: I tested this because I think it's better to have all the relevant > information before deciding an issue, please don't interpret my email as > being critical of the proposed resolution. Thank you *very* much for your work. - Josh Triplett -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141104204210.GB25365@cloud
